Vaccine bill injects drama into Capitol hearing

April 18, 2012 - By admin

April 18, 2012

By Katy Grimes

Debate over a vaccine bill injected drama into a hearing of the Assembly Health Committee in the California Legislature Tuesday. Legislators ignored parental concerns. And the Capitol sergeants brutalized parents holding infants.

What should have been a hearing addressing parental concerns in a democracy turned into Lobby Day for the California Medical Association and hundreds of public health doctors, medical school students and other medical practitioners who flooded the hearing room in support of AB 2109 by Assemblyman Richard Pan, D-Sacramento, himself a medical doctor.

The unspeakable issue at the root of Pan’s bill is the influx of children from other countries into California’s public schools, who bring with them new strains of measles, mumps, chicken pox and flu bugs, among other communicable diseases. Children who have recently traveled out of the country also bring home infectious diseases.

It is not politically correct to address that problem. Instead the Legislature is proposing that everyone get vaccinated.

It’s no different that a teacher punishing the entire class because of one bad kid. The inability to single out the issue is the problem.

Tense Hearing

The Health Committee chairman, Assemblyman Bill Monning, D-Carmel, appeared agitated from the outset of the hearing. He admonished the gathered audience of mostly parents several times before the the hearing even started.

Dean Blumberg, an associate professor for U.C. Davis specializing in infectious diseases, testified in support of Pan’s bill. Blumberg said that, even with the many life-saving vaccinations available, he still sees children who have not been vaccinated. The children end up sick, with preventable illnesses.

And for that reason, Blumberg said California needs to maintain very high school immunization rates. He added that Pan’s bill does not infringe on parents’ rights to choose to vaccinate, or not.

Doctors Show Support for AB 2109

All of the public health players were at the hearing and testified in support of AB 2109: The California Medical Association, the California Pharmacy Association, the Association of Physician Assistants, the California State Employees Association, the County Health Executive Association, as well as the doctors and dentists’ unions.

Doctors and medical students lined up to show support for the bill, and each assured the committee that they would sign a waiver form for parents opting out of vaccinations.

Vehement Opposition to AB 2109

Dawn Winkler testified in opposition to AB 2109, and said that children get more than 50 vaccinations. Winkler, the California State co-director of the National Vaccine Information Center, and executive director of Health Advocacy in the Public Interest, said the bill was not about parents receiving more accurate information about vaccinations. “They already have that available,” Winkler said. “This is about parents’ rights, under the law. Why on earth should parents have to obtain more information about vaccinations and opt-out permission? This will interfere with the right to free education and the right to religious freedom. This bill poses a threat to freedom.”

Hundreds of parents testified that they have been “fired” by their childrens’ pediatricians for refusing vaccinations. “I’ve been bullied by my pediatrician, harassed, and kicked out,” one woman explained. Many others relayed similar stories.

Bob Sears, a private practice pediatrician and 14-year member of the American Association of Pediatricians, said he believes in providing vaccinations, but expressed concern over evidence that many doctors will not sign the waiver for parents to opt-out of vaccinations. “A study of over 1,000 pediatricians found that 39 percent of the American Association of Pediatricians said they will kick parents out if vaccinations are refused,” Sears said.

The bill’s sponsors, The American Academy of Pediatrics, the California Medical Association and the Health Officers Association of California, said that the continued increase in personal belief exemptions and resultant decreases in community immunization rates “could have a significant impact on public safety and because PBEs are relatively easy to obtain,” and recommend strong support for AB 2109.

“How many kids won’t be able to sign up for school?” Sears asked. “Free choice is not having to get a doctor to sign off on a free choice.”

Sears said that the  Centers for Disease Control admits that as many as 30,000 adverse reactions to vaccinations are reported every year. And between 3,000 and 4,500 severe vaccine reactions, up to and including death, occur every year in the United States. Some doctors say that the numbers of severe reactions to vaccinations are much higher than the CDC’s numbers.

Parents Oppose AB 2109

Testifying in opposition to AB 2109, hundreds of chiropracters, parents, medical doctors and students lined up and shared why they oppose the bill.

“Two of my three children are vaccination-injured,”  one mother said. Parent after parent testified about vaccine-injured children, and why they opted not to vaccinate the rest of their kids. Others reported that they had been harassed, bullied and kicked out of numerous pediatricians’ offices for refusing vaccinations for their children.

One physician said that children in foreign countries are healthier than American children because they don’t get the 50 vaccinations American children get.

Parents testified that they were intelligent and educated enough to make the decision to vaccinate or not. “I am a Carnegie Mellon graduate. My son got the mandatory Hepatitus B cavvination and got very sick,” a mother testified.

“I am a member of MENSA,  have a bachelors degree and am smart enough to make the choice for my family,” another mother testified.

An attorney testified that she represents parents over privacy and HIPPA rights. The HIPAA Privacy Rule provides federal protections for personal health information held by doctor’s offices, and gives patients an array of rights with how that information is used.

Committee Questions AB 2109

Assemblyman Dan Logue, R-Linda, asked what will happen to school-aged children if parents can’t get a doctor to sign off on the vaccination opt-out waiver. Pan said that there are 150,000 medical practitioners in the state. “We will get somebody to sign the form,” Pan said.

But Sears disagreed. “The biggest issue is: Can you find a doctor to sign the form?”

Logue pressed for an answer. “I asked what happens if no one signs the form?”

“Children can’t go to school,” Winkler said.

Logue asked if parents will be billed for an office visit if the physician will not sign the waiver for parents who choose not to vaccinate.

Pan tried to convey that some of the visits to doctors are considered well-care, and under some insurance, parents will not be billed. “We want these kids to go to school,” Pan said.

“But will the insurance company charge them?” Logue asked. He never received an answer.

“How do we know parents lack information?” Assemblyman Allan Mansoor, R-Costa Mesa, asked. “How do we know that they aren’t already informed?”

“Some parents are, but many others are uncertain,” Pan said. “Outbreaks are possible if people have been traveling…. It’s about the other children at school. They depend on the rest of us to get vaccinated,” Pan said.

But that was as far as Dr. Pan went, despite the elephant in the room.

Parental Rights v. Public Health

Most parents were at the hearing concerned about injuries and illnesses from vaccinations. And many of the parents present had children who had been vaccine-injured, including autistic children. There is a growing belief that the dramatic rise in autism is directly related to the increase in childhood vaccinations.

But Monning would not allow anyone to discuss this angle. Only Assemblyman Brian Nestande, R-Palm Desert, managed to ask a question about the correlation between vaccinations and autism, and Monning told him to wrap it up quickly. “The bill does not mandate immunization, just counseling of parents,” Monning said.

Pan interjected that there are recent studies showing a link between obesity and autism, “but the bill is not about that.”

Sears said that the real reason there are illness outbreaks is that many vaccinations wear off quickly. “The point is not because of unvaccinated children. The recent Pertussis whooping cough outbreak was caused by the vaccination wearing off. It was found to be only 41 percent effective,” Sears said.

Sears said that he is not against vaccinations, and administers many to his patients. “Not all vaccinations work well, and you can’t blame the unvaccinated children,” Dr. Sears added. “The issue I am against is taking away the choice of parents.”

Blumberg told the committee that it was apparent the parents present at the hearing were educated and informed, and were not the parents being targeted by the bill.

Bill Passed Out of the Committee

AB 2109 passed the committee, 10-4.According to Winkler, the hearing Tuesday was a failure of the political system. Winkler found that Monning’s bias prevented all information from being discussed. Winkler said that, in the 15 years she has been testifying at hearings, she has never had so little time to speak, nor been cut off so many times.

And it was apparent that the Capitol sergeants-at arms had been instructed to aggressively manage the crowd.

In years of attending hearings, I’ve never seen strong-arming by Capitol sergeants the way I witnessed yesterday. The Occupy protestors were not man-handled the way the parents were yesterday.

A room full of women holding babies is hardly a threat to legislators. But a room full of educated health advocates and parents apparently is.

“What’s next if this bill passes?” asked Winkler. “Take the word ‘vaccine’ out of the subject. What’s next?”

See the related story, ‘Vaccine bill gouges parental rights.’

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Comments(63)
  1. CalWatchdog says:

    This bill shows that California now is a tyranny run by special interests that destroy parental rights.

    Get your family out of this air-conditioned fascism while you can.

    — John Seijler

  2. Beelzebub says:

    “The unspeakable issue at the root of Pan’s bill is the influx of children from other countries into California’s public schools, who bring with them new strains of measles, mumps, chicken pox and flu bugs, among other communicable diseases. Children who have recently traveled out of the country also bring home infectious diseases”

    There ya go! Bulls eye! But the good libertarians avoid that problem like the plague. They scream about parental rights. But when little Jose comes from Guatamala and brings TB or whooping cough into the classroom and INFECTS MY CHILD – I am supposed to respect the rights of Jose’s parents not to vaccinate their kid. BS. This is a continuing war on the American citizens!

    Go read my last post under the last blog on vaccines. Vaccines are wonderful things. THEY HAVE SAVED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES! And that is a MEDICAL FACT and part of the HISTORICAL ARCHIVES! You can’t deny it with a straight face!

    So let’s all step back, take a deep breath and get back in touch with reality!

  3. Martha Montelongo says:

    Hey Beezelbub, you ignore the distinction Katy makes following the paragraph you cite above. She follows with “It is not politically correct to address that problem. Instead the Legislature is proposing that everyone get vaccinated.

    It’s no different that a teacher punishing the entire class because of one bad kid. The inability to single out the issue is the problem.”

    Why not address the problem forthrightly? Why make parents of children who are well and not exposed, have to comply so that no one who comes from a region where the diseases are a danger feels singled out? We should accept political correctness as public policy? It is an affront to parental rights, to reason, and common sense. There are risks involved, and it is unreasonable to force exposing children and their parents to these risks for the sake of political correctness. It’s outrageous.

  4. Beelzebub says:

    Martha, did you read my response? “There ya go! Bulls eye!” I supported Katy’s position that the overriding problem is that our public schools are being overtaken by illegal indigent foreigners who are bringing their diseases into our schools and infecting our schools. If our rulers dealt with THAT PROBLEM and eliminated it – WE WOULDN’T NEED TO FORCE MANDATORY VACCINATIONS. Now do you get it???

    You see, when big fires are not addressed DIRECTLY they result in spot fires everywhere else. That’s what we are seeing with illegal immigration. WELFARE, CRIME, DISEASE, etc…. Those are the spot fires that are burning down our institutions one after another.

    I am arguing that the libertarians are complicitly encouraging the BIGGER problem by supporting open borders.

    Until illegal immigration is stopped dead in it’s tracks and illegals are not allowed to use our education system – MANDATORY VACCINATIONS ARE NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR OWN CHILDREN, MARTHA!

    What don’t you understand about that???

  5. Peggy says:

    Well spoken, Martha. The justification for forcing vaccinations of to protect OTHERS from you, if you are a proven risk. Our rights are violated when we are forced to get vaccinated when we are posing no apparent risk to others. This is what we get when we turn over more and more of our lives to the state, instead of defending our freedom and taking responsibility.
    One good outcome could be that more parents will choose not to turn over their kids to the state schools, and explore the many wonderful alternative paths to learning and growing that preserve our freedom of thought and control over our own lives. If they are worried about the vaccinations, they should be far more worried about the long-term, irreversible effects of institutionalized state schooling on the minds and spirits of our children.

  6. Biscuits says:

    our state and country is failing miserably. itis OUR right to vaccinate or not. i don’t think people realize by this passing what it is going to be next. but like she said, you take “vaccine” out of the equation it could be something else. i have a right to protect MY child, not everyone else’s. of jose is brining in tb and whooping cough, make sure they are here legally! but don’t make it everyone else’s responsibility for YOUR child. you as a paretn need to take better precautions to boost your child’s imune system and not just rely on vaccines as a cure all. in case you have not read, most of the outbreaks are from VACCINATED children and adults. the strains are mutating around the vaccine. so what next? another 45 shots of boosters? come on now. do you see the joke in all this?

  7. […] What should have been a hearing addressing parental concerns in a democracy turned into Lobby Day for the California Medical Association and hundreds of public health doctors, medical school students and other medical practitioners who flooded the hearing room in support of AB 2109 by Assemblyman Richard Pan, D-Sacramento, himself a medical doctor. The unspeakable issue at the root of Pan’s bill is the influx of children from other countries into California’s public schools, who bring with them new strains of measles, mumps, chicken pox and flu bugs, among other communicable diseases. Children who have recently traveled out of the country also bring home infectious diseases.   It is not politically correct to address that problem. Instead the Legislature is proposing that everyone get vaccinated.   It’s no different that a teacher punishing the entire class because of one bad kid. The inability to single out the issue is the problem.   Read the full story at CalWatchdog.org […]

  8. Beelzebub says:

    “Our rights are violated when we are forced to get vaccinated when we are posing no apparent risk to others”

    Peggy – you still don’t get it.

    Here, let me put it in the simpliest of terms for you.

    In social studies class TB infected Jose coughs on Mary. Unvaccinated Mary becomes infected but the symptoms are not yet apparent.

    Mary goes to english class where your child is also enrolled. Mary coughs on Stella who is also unvaccinated.

    Stella’s mother shared your same opinion: that Stella did not need a vaccination because she was no apparent threat to others.

    Now do you see the emptiness of your argument, Peggy?

    Come on, folks. We all have to grow up and face reality. We are talking about preventing massive outbreaks of terrible disease.

    Society is what it is. Unless you have attended PTA meetings and screamed about illegals saturating your schools and bringing in disease from third world nations you are not part of the solution. You are part of the problem.

  9. Beelzebub says:

    “i have a right to protect MY child, not everyone else’s. of jose is brining in tb and whooping cough, make sure they are here legally! but don’t make it everyone else’s responsibility for YOUR child”

    It is irresponsible for a parent not to arm their child with all modern-day protection necessary to fight horrible infectious disease that can deform and even kill. Parents who opt out on vaccinations are turning their children into walking time bombs that can cause serious harm to other children. If your child attends school you DO have the responsibility that your child does not harm another. Yes you do. We all do.

    “you as a paretn need to take better precautions to boost your child’s imune system and not just rely on vaccines as a cure all. in case you have not read, most of the outbreaks are from VACCINATED children and adults. the strains are mutating around the vaccine. so what next? another 45 shots of boosters?”

    A child with the strongest immune system cannot overcome a TB or whooping cough infection. All kids get runny noses and sore throats and ear aches. These actually make the immune system stronger and prevent future infections of the same type. However, when we speak of TB, whopping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, etc… we are not messing with runny noses, sore throats or ear aches. We are dealing with insidious disease that deforms and kills. A child’s immune system cannot fight these dieseases effectively without vaccines. I suggest you have a heart to heart with your child’s pediatrician at thet next visit.

    The mutation argument is bogus. Disease mutates very slowly if at all. The BCG vaccine used to prevent TB in 1921 is the VERY SAME vaccine used today. And the same goes for most other vaccines used for age-old once eradicated diseases (in the US) that are beginning to rear their ugly heads in our society.

    Burying our heads in the ground is not a solution. Not a good choice. Our children’s lives and futures are at stake here. We must protect them to the best of our ability and we do have an obligation in society to protect other children too.

    Please read more about the history of vaccines and their benefits to mankind.

    Until we solve the illegal alien invasion we need to protect our kids

  10. Peggy says:

    hi Beelzebub my dear friend,
    I do believe my itty bitty brain has comprehended the vastness of your wisdom — at least I am making a valiant attempt :). I do see that we affect each other sometimes without knowing or intending, as can be silent carriers.
    The point of disagreement still stands however: Mary and Stella above have made their decision and have taken their risk, and will bear the consequences. If your child is exposed to them, and you have vaccinated, then you (and your child) are protected. Why do you need to control others?

    My itty bitty brain told me that trying to have influence by proxy over my own kids through PTA conferences, or other forms of begging or pleading with officials to pretty please make the choices I desire for my own kids was a pathetic waste of time and provided education for them in other ways, that did not involve abdicating choice and responsibility. Turned out to be one of my better, most empowering (for me AND kids) choices in life, as well as lots of fun. Peace to you, hope all the kids stay healthy.

  11. Beelzebub says:

    “Mary and Stella above have made their decision and have taken their risk, and will bear the consequences”

    No. That’s a false statement. Mary and Stella’s PARENTS took the risk – and MARY AND STELLA LOST. Quite a distinction there, dear. Let that sink in.

    “Why do you need to control others?”

    It has nothing to do with controlling other. If everyone opted out of vaccinations we would have a HUGE outbreak on our hands and they you would be crying the blues and wailing: “WHY DIDN’T SOMEONE DO SOMETHING?”

    Most people do not think through these problems. Especially Americans. They put their own rights above their children’s health and the best interests of public health.

    “My itty bitty brain told me that trying to have influence by proxy over my own kids through PTA conferences, or other forms of begging or pleading with officials to pretty please make the choices I desire for my own kids was a pathetic waste of time and provided education for them in other ways, that did not involve abdicating choice and responsibility”

    IMO that’s a cop out. If you don’t get involved in changing the system you have no right to complain when the outcomes don’t go your way.

    I guess your choices are to home school your kids or send them to private schools that don’t require vaccinations.

    With all the problem in public schools and with all the riff raff that attend them all I know is that I would NEVER send a child of mine into that war zone without a full series of vaccinations to protect them from a long list of ungodly disease.

    If you choose not to – that is your choice. But your children carry the risk – not you. Just keep that in mind.

  12. CalWatchdog says:

    Didn’t anyone notice that I said children are given 50 vaccinations? 50?

    America’s children are grossly over vaccinated. While there are amazing, miracle immunizations which have saved countless lives, there are also far too many immunizations which interfere with a healthy immune system. The bulk of immunizations are important for some, but not all.

    Health decisions should only be made between adults/parents, and doctors, and not by the government.
    What’s next on the government’s agenda if this bill passes? Mandatory colonoscopies, hysterectomies for women over 40, and annual teeth cleaning, all done by unionized public health doctors? Is this where we are headed?

    Katy Grimes

  13. Ellen Diann says:

    Doctors are owned by the AMA and the AMA is owned by the DRUG COMPANIES and…. Listen we have to stop arguing with these IDIOTS and just take our country back from the corporations. We need to home school our kids, go to Christian Schools and demand school vouchers. THe government can’t teach your kids anyway, they government is out of control and wants to shove sexual perversions down our children’s throats. Vaccines as well as our health care is a TOTAL FRAUD. Cancer cures are elusive, they don’t have cures for anything and they don’t know why you get sick. God has not withheld the cures, but THE AMA withholds the cures and does not allow God in science. WAKE UP parents and realize your battle is against the drug companies. Are you supporting the drug companies by buying their toxic potions? If so, you are part of the problem too.

  14. John Nowicki says:

    Actually one needs to look and ask how if vaccines are “effective” and your child is vaccinated could a unvaccinated child be a threat to the vaccinated child? Safety should also be of concern and since ALL vaccines are so dangerous that they are insured thru the VAERS system of the federal government why would I want that slop injected into my child? You cannot sue the health care provider giving the vaccine or the manufacturer for injury of this product. You have to take your case to the feds. Good luck! This was backed up by the US Supreme court in February of 2011. Warmest regards.

  15. larry 62 says:

    Katy, Sounds as though you touched on a very sensitive subject. Great comments from your readers. I enjoy them immensely.

  16. Beelzebub says:

    Katy, I’m glad you chimed in. In a small way some of your followers here remind me of those uneducated and misinformed members of religion sects who refuse plasma or blood transfusions for their children who suffer from infectious blood disease. In some cases without a transfusion it’s pretty much a death sentence. IMO those parents should be thrown in jail and charged with voluntary negligent homicide. And I’m a guy who is big on civil liberties and limited government interference in our lives. If those adults choose to decline life-saving medical treatment for themselves that’s fine by me. In fact I support them 100%. But when the parent offloads the risk onto an innocent child and their gamble fails with death, deformity. crippled limbs, etc… if I were a juror I would vote to convict. And I despise big brother, btw. But knowing that medical treatment is accessible that could save your child’s life or save the child from serious medical complications – and knowingly and willfully refusing the child that option – is irresponsible and negligent IMO.

    Colonoscopies and hysterectomies are the patients choice and that’s the way it should be. Afterall – the patient has to live with the final choice. Teeth cleanings are benign. Why would anyone opt out of those? You are comparing apples with cumquats here. There is scientific evidence that vaccinations save live and prevent terrible health complications. There is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE (peer reviewed medical studies found in major medical journals) that vaccinations pose significant danger to most people being vaccinated. There is a small segment of the population 1%-3% who are not appropriate subject for certain vaccinations (eg. egg allergies and flu vaccine). But those folks are screened beforehand.

    Dawn Winkler is in all likelihood exaggerating about the 50 vaccinations. You are going to have to come up with a proof source for me to believe that. Children need to be vaccinated against all the major diseases and especially the ones that are resurfacing in California that we erradicated decades ago. If the third world illegals are bringing these illnesses back into our country we need to protect our children. That’s the bottom line here. To do otherwise is irresponsible and negligent.

  17. Chandra says:

    Great article about today’s hearing. Just to clarify some misinformation being spouted off here – the TB vaccine is not a recommended childhood vaccine in the US, so that half of the above argument is moot. Also, the whole *age-old* disease argument is not the whole picture – along with the polio, MMR, diptheria, etc that many of us also received as kids, now they “require” that our kids get a couple shots for chicken pox, Hepatitis B (how many one day old newborns do you know shooting up?), rotavirus, and now the latest push – HPV. There are several others I haven’t even mentioned! It’s TOO MANY and our kids are the guinea pigs – AKA long term studies.

    Speaking of PC politics – the whole Hep B thing is the same story – we can’t specifically target drug user promiscuous moms, so let’s give this vaccine to all newborns in their first 24 hours so they catch everyone who might need it. And if you ask questions as a parent, you are generally made to feel like you will be endangering your kid’s life if you even want to wait a few months.

    The CA legislature recently passed a bill that allows minors to receive STD vaccines ( like Hep B and HPV and any future ones) without parental knowledge. Our parental rights are being chipped away and many people, probably most, have no clue.

    Follow the money trail…. That will usually tell the real story of where this all stems from.

  18. Chandra says:

    Here are the schedules from the CDC website – the 50 vaccine figure is probably a count of all the individual doses of the different vaccines, plus the yearly flu shot that is recommended for ages 6 months and up. Many of these vaccines are given in combo shots, so children don’t necessarily get 50 needle jabs over the years.

    And scarlet fever is not vaccinated against either. That’s caused from Group A strep.

    Beelzebub, before you accuse people of being uneducated,, you should make sure you have some idea of what you are talking about – spouting off about vaccines for TB and Scarlet Fever, though it would not surprise me in the least if those get added to the schedule next – what’s a few more injections of mercury (yes, it is still in some), aluminum, and aborted fetal tissue?? Yes, all true, look it up.

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/7-18yrs-schedule-pr.pdf

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

  19. Beelzebub says:

    “It’s TOO MANY and our kids are the guinea pigs – AKA long term studies”

    What are you talking about? The large majority of these vaccines have been around for 50 years or more. When you say ‘long term’ studies – how long do you want the studies to be? 1000 years? If these primary vaccines were detrimental we would know it by now. No peer reviewed scientific data has determined the slighest risk with these vaccines unless it is contraindicated for a certain subject (eg, egg allergies w/ the flu vaccine).

    So please, all of you out there, stop your handwringing. Place your children’s health in front of your own percieved parental rights. It’s not all about you. This is an American phenomenon. Our global neighbors laugh at us over matters like this. We are the laughing stock of the world! Smarten up!

  20. Cindy says:

    http://www.nvic.org/Downloads/49-Doses-PosterB.aspx

    Also, if you consider PCV Vaccine has 7 to 13 serotypes, it’s over 50.

    Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV)

    General information – pneumococcal conjugate

    In 2000, the first pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV) was licensed in the U.S. This vaccine contained seven serotypes (4, 6B, 9V, 14, 18C, 19F, and 23F) of Streptococcus pneumoniae and became known as PCV7 (Prevnar by Wyeth, now Pfizer). Ten years later in February 2010, a new 13-valent product was licensed — PCV13 (Prevnar 13, Pfizer) — which added 6 new serotypes (1, 3, 5, 6A, 7F, and 19A). Together, these 13 serotypes account for the majority of invasive pneumococcal disease (IPD) in the U.S., including serotype 19A, which is the most common IPD-causing serotype in young children. In February 2010 ACIP recommended that healthcare providers transition from use of PCV7 to use of PCV13 for routine vaccination of children.

  21. Beelzebub says:

    The rampant misinformation and ignorance on these boards is worrisome to me.

    Please, take the time to read this information. It is a primer that addresses 20 of the most common questions about vaccines, their mechanism of action, efficacy rates, side effects and overall suitability for our children. A little education is the best vaccine for ignorance.

    http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/top-20-questions-about-vaccination

  22. Peggy says:

    Peace Beelzebub,

    You said:
    “With all the problem in public schools and with all the riff raff that attend them all I know is that I would NEVER send a child of mine into that war zone without a full series of vaccinations to protect them from a long list of ungodly disease…”
    What I say is, why send them into a war zone at all??
    FYI I did vaccinate my kids, that isn’t the issue for me really.The point is choice, freedom, and the responsibility that goes with it. It is respect for individuals to choose, whether they agree with me or not. There are plenty of people who weigh the risks and decide NOT to vaccinate,out of concern for harm, and I respect that right.
    I do not respect the idea of actively infecting and exposing others, but we should be able to choose how to defend ourselves
    If you think you can change the state school system, well good luck my dear.
    It is inherently corrupt and far more of a clear and present danger to society than infectious disease at present. You can only leave it and create an alternative – to me that IS contributing a great deal, and IS real change.

  23. Beelzebub says:

    “What I say is, why send them into a war zone at all??”

    Some people have no real choice, Peggy. It takes money to afford a private school education and few people are really qualified or equipped to home school their children. Let’s be realistic here.

    “It is respect for individuals to choose, whether they agree with me or not”

    Perceived ‘rights’ take a back seat when we start talking about contagious disease and the health of the general public. Those who don’t want to vaccinate their kids? Fine. Home school them. But don’t comingle them with a classroom full of other children and possibly place their health in jeopardy. Rights do not supercede civilized behavior and our obligation to do no harm to the health of our fellow man. I used to get very annoyed when co-workers came to work with a contagious illness and threatened to pass their disease to me. But sending a child to school to possibly infect other children with horrendous disease with lifetime condequences is unconsionable! That’s about as selfish as it gets!

  24. Menina says:

    For those you are interested, here is the full hearing on video at the link below…

  25. joejoe says:

    I could just see it now, this will be a case heading to the Supreme Court.

  26. CalWatchdog says:

    It’s an emotional subject for many, particularly parents whose children are vaccine-injured.

    But even without the emotion, as Dawn said, take the word ‘vaccine’ out of the bill, and what parental right will be eroded next? This is purely a parental rights issue that has gone unchecked for too many years.

    here is the hearing from the Capitol’s closed circuit television system, The California Channel: http://www.calchannel.com/video-on-demand/ scroll down to Assembly Health Committee April 17, click on video

    Katy

  27. Sylvia says:

    OMG Beelzebub – “preceived” rights? You must be joking or smoking some serious dope. Vaccination is an envasive medical procedure that carries the risk of disability and even death. Each vaccine carries risk – the more vaccines, the more risks. The United States Legal System defines vaccination as “unavoidably unsafe”, meaning that some people will be harmed by them, even when used correctly. Yet you think the government should have the right to mandate as many vaccines as they want? That is insane. Stark-raving-lunacy. These are blatant human rights violations. Whatever you think, I have the right to say NO. You claim the misinformation on these boards are worrisome? You have made more false claims about vaccines here than I have heard in a long time. I couldn’t possibly take the time to address all the inaccuracies in your many postings, but I urge you to remember that it is not up to me to risk my children lives with dangerous medical procedures to make you feel safe.

  28. Beelzebub says:

    “I could just see it now, this will be a case heading to the Supreme Court”

    That would only happen in these United States of America where perceived “rights” are sometimes elevated to an absurd level. Where some think that their “rights” supercede the health of an entire population. Go talk with someone who immigrated (legally) to this nation from Europe or Asia – educated folks. If you know them well enough they shake their heads and laugh at matters like this.

    And I am BIG on rights – particularly unalienable rights granted by a power much greater than ourselves and not the government.

    Parental ‘rights’ to deny a child vaccines that have been proven to keep him or her safe from lethal or devastating life altering disease is not one of those “rights”. I’m sorry.

  29. Beelzebub says:

    “But even without the emotion, as Dawn said, take the word ‘vaccine’ out of the bill, and what parental right will be eroded next?”

    Dawn claimed we are requiring 50 separate vaccines on school aged kids. That’s about as emotional and over the top as it gets. She is supposed to remain objective and factual. Those on this board are not held to that same standard.

    In the future if the government requires the implantation of a microchip into a child’s cerebellum with or without the consent of the parent, I will be the first one in the streets screaming at the top of my lungs. Trust me on that. There is no one bigger on ‘civil liberties’ than I am. But I do not place perceived individual ‘rights’ over and above the physicial health and wellbeing of an entire population of people. Let’s use some reasonable and rational discretion here.

  30. David H says:

    I volunteer Beelzebub for operation whitecoat since he trusts in government injections.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Whitecoat

  31. California Drowning says:

    Beelzebub: Why is jose in the class anyway, and why does he and his family not get mandatory vaccination when they travel. Is that not the rules. I rememober when I was young and travels, i was shot up with lots of vaccines, do they not do that anymore. And why dont these forginors who we pay for daily with tax dollars not get charged when they come here and get shot full of these vaccines. Sheezz. California sucks so much these days since it has become a forgien country. Open Boarders? They already are here in cali. STOP TELLING US CITIZENS WHAT TO DO, MAKE THE ILLEGALS GET SHOTS WHEN YOU ALLOW THEM IN.

  32. Beelzebub says:

    “Let’s follow the money here shall we…”

    Oh, stop it with your “Bolen Report”. Do you think all pediatricians do all day long is poke holes in children and inject vaccines? heh. I have known some fine pediatricians in my day and all have been totally ethical when it comes to the health and well being of their patients. As a matter of fact, all of them practiced the ‘do no harm’ philosophy and refused to conduct unnecessary tests or practices in the quest to make money. Do unethical pediatricians exist? Sure they do. Unethical priests and unethical nuns exist too. Your job is to find a competent and ethical pediatrician for your child. And it’s not very difficult to do in America.

    I am not a friend of pharmaceutical companies. But I do not let my prejudice blind me of all the good that pharma companies have done. Oh, and btw. It is getting harder and harder to find pharma companies to manufacture vaccines BECAUSE THERE IS NO PROFIT IN IT!!!! So don’t start with “Oh, the pharma companies are making money hand over fist with vaccines!” BS!!! That is a lie!!! Do you research and stop shooting from the hip!!!

  33. Beelzebub says:

    “I volunteer Beelzebub for operation whitecoat since he trusts in government injections”

    Looky here. Another handwringer!!! :D

    There is absolutely ZERO correlation between what happened with ‘Operation Whitecoat’ and routine vaccinations that are given to people to prevent the outbreak of lethal and devastating disease.

    If another epidemic of polio or TB broke out and millions died or were deformed for the rest of their lives – I bet you would be the first one to scream “WHY DIDN’T THE GOVERNMENT DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT THIS!!!”

    I know your kind. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t. You’re type that can’t be pleased. All you do is complain without thinking.

    Grow up.

  34. California Drowning says:

    Beelzebub (what does that mean anyway): “If another epidemic of polio or TB broke out and millions died or were deformed for the rest of their lives – I bet you would be the first one to scream “WHY DIDN’T THE GOVERNMENT DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT THIS!!!”

    NO, I WILL BE BLAMING THE ILLEGALS and CRAPPY DEMOCRATES!!!

  35. Beelzebub says:

    “STOP TELLING US CITIZENS WHAT TO DO, MAKE THE ILLEGALS GET SHOTS WHEN YOU ALLOW THEM IN”

    Go back and read my previous posts before you start ranting.

    I already said that illegal immigration is the PRIMARY cause of this and it is not being addressed. Even the libertarians skirt the issue (as a matter of fact they promote open borders which FUELS THE PROBLEM – and then they complain when we need to vaccinate children since all these old eradicated diseases are beginning to resurface.

    Until our immigration laws are enforced and these third world indigents are REPELLED rather than WELCOMED into our country – we MUST protect our children from the disease(s) that they carry with them across the border. Sorry. That’s the truth. And I know many of you have a real hard time handling the TRUTH, don’t you???

    So go to your next Libertarian Party pep rally and DEMAND that they change their position on this critical issue.

    You GROW UP too. Ok???

  36. Beelzebub says:

    “NO, I WILL BE BLAMING THE ILLEGALS and CRAPPY DEMOCRATES!!!”

    Ca Drowning,it is BOTH the dems and republicant pols who are encouraging illegal immigration. Not just the dems. So you stop it!

    Congressman John Boehner (Speaker of the House) and his republicant cronies are doing everything possible to keep proposed legislation which mandates E-Verify nationwide from exiting the House Ways and Means Committee for a full vote on the House floor. So it’s not just them dems. IT’S ALL THE POLS. Break out of your ignorance and denial!!!

  37. Beelzebub says:

    Ca Drowning – research HR 2885 and see how the Republicants are OBSTRUCTING the movement of that proposed national E-Verify mandate legislation to the House floor.

    And ask your friendly Libertarian if he or she favors E-Verify.

    There is your answer.

    Just because they CLAIM to be your friend – it’s not necessarily true!

  38. Sylvia says:

    Another half dozen or postings by someone that clearly is not dealing with the facts. The United States mandates the most vaccinations of any country on earth. Our infant mortality rate is appalling – we are currently 49th. We were #3 in the early 1950’s, and have been sliding down ever since. Our babies are more likely to die before they reach the age of one year – more often than 48 other countries.

    One in 88 children have autism. One in 6 have a learning disability. Asthma has skyrocketed, diabetes and life threatening allergies have also gone up dramatically. Our children are NOT healthy. Vaccines harm some children, that is fact. Over 2 billion dollars have been paid to families of vaccine injured children since 1986, when congress began to shield drug makers of ALL LIABILITY for the damaged from vaccines. A tax on each vaccine goes into a fund to pay victims. Only a small percentage of those who try to access this fund ever prevail because the government makes it incredibly difficult to do so.

    And YES, 50 vaccines by kindergarten. Count them. It is not difficult. Just because some vaccines are bundled together, such as MMR (Mumps, Measles, Rubella) doesn’t mean they are one vaccine, they are not, that is 3. Three seperate live viruses is one shot. On some appointments a two month old infant can get as many as 13 vaccines in one day. That is more that most adults received in their entire lives.

  39. Tbug says:

    Here’s what the MDs don’t tell you…

    Vaccine Ingredients — A Comprehensive Guide

    http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/

  40. Beelzebub says:

    “Our infant mortality rate is appalling – we are currently 49th”

    The infant mortality rate has nothing to do with vaccinations. As a matter of fact, if we didn’t have mandated vaccinations we would be ranked over 100 in infant mortality. Haven’t you people even taken a science course in your lives? HS biology? Don’t you have anyone in your families in the medical field who knows the facts? The reason we have such a high mortality rate is due to poor prenatal care (illegals crossing the borders in their 7th month) and crack mama’s. Our maternal drug addicts are off the charts compared to other civilized nations. Get your facts straight before you come on these boards.

    “Asthma has skyrocketed, diabetes and life threatening allergies have also gone up dramatically. Our children are NOT healthy”

    Autism, diabetes, and life-threatening allergies HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH VACCINES!!!! And you have no peer reviewed scientific proof to show otherwise. You are just ranting.

    “And YES, 50 vaccines by kindergarten. Count them”

    Name the vaccines – every one of them. 1 through 50. Either that or shut up.

    Ladies and gentlemen, too much freedom will kill you. History has proven that. “Liberty” across the board sounds nice – but absolute liberty kills.

    I am not free to walk up and punch you in the nose. And you are not allowed to send your unvaccinated child to school to infect my child or other children with ungodly disease.

    Again, grow up!

  41. Beelzebub says:

    I am an old man. I have had every vaccine known to man. I receive oodles of vaccines prior to living overseas. I have had a flu shot most every year of my life. I get a tetanus booster every 10 years.

    MY BRAIN IS JUST FINE! I DON’T HAVE AUTISM! I DON’T HAVE ALLERGIES! AND CHANCES ARE GOOD THAT IF HADN’T RECEIVED THOSE VACCINES THAT I’D BE DEAD!!!

    Put that in your freedom pipe and smoke it!!! :)

  42. Mykidsma says:

    Well said, Sylvia!
    I find many well-meaning adults completely ignorant to the fact that they, themselves, have never had even a 1/4 of the vaccinations that today’s kids are expected to receive. And THEY aren’t lining up at the local pharmacy to get themselves up to date either. Isn’t that odd?? Strange that my newborn needs HepB, but my 50 year old neighbor doesn’t. Hhhhmmm. Silly comments still pervade like, “it never harmed me” and “remember polio!” from the same people who don’t have any wise words (or even eye contact!) for a vaccine-injured child and their struggling parents. “‘Those people’ are a sad reality it seems; a necessary risk. And they probably didn’t really get hurt from the vaccine anyway,” they say to themselves…and maybe their friends. Until one day it’s YOUR grandchild that laughs and runs and talks and enjoys the praises of his grandma imagining the vision of her little future fireman or ballerina…until that day at the doctors office. You remember, when all those vaccines were given and the baby cried for 3 days straight, and maybe convulsions that the doctor told you were NORMAL, but then she never spoke again. And then all the future doctor visits when you began to hear about neurological disorders…which are purely coincidental to the vaccines, of course. And then you start really studying vaccines at night when everyone is asleep. Why didn’t you ever hear about THAT ingredient, or THAT side-effect on the news before? Maybe you join a support network of thousands of parents and caregivers with a similar story as you. Maybe your eyes begin to open to the abuses and ignorance around us. Maybe you learn about the real risks of vaccines, this time without the fear of a virus, because, really, is that so bad now in light of the permanent neurological damage you’re facing every day?? And one day you wake up to find you’ve become one of those crazy ‘refusers’ who’s passionate about your right to make up your own mind instead of allowing someone else to decide for you. THEN you’ve graduated to just a self-educated nuisance to someone else who hasn’t yet walked in your shoes.

  43. queeg says:

    Force…take over every bowling alley in California….get all children innoculated….then give em a free pass for the day!!!

  44. Tbug says:

    Here’s part 1 of a 7 part history lesson…

    http://www.bolenreport.com/Mark%20Geier/foiasuit1.htm

  45. Sylvia says:

    That is very convincing Beelzebub. I am now convinced more than ever that vaccines are dangerous and brain damaging. Thank you for that. Did you know that the flu shot contains Thimerosal, which is half mercury? And that mercury accumulates in your body? And that seniors who had the most flu shots had the highest chances of developing Alzheimers? And I most certainly do not have to shut up – if you are getting frustrated, that is your problem. Telling people to shut up who disagree with you is a sign you are losing your grip on the topic.
    Tbug just posted the link that names all the vaccines on the childhood schedule. I am not going to type them all, but here is what the childhood schedule has for a 2 month old infant:

    Diptheria
    Tetanus
    Pertussis
    Polio
    Hib
    PCV
    Rotavirus
    Hepatitis B

    That’s eight right there, in ONE day, for an infant that weighs less than 10 pounds. And they keep on coming every month or two from there. Some parents want some but not all of them. Some want most of the vaccines, but not the ones like Hepatitis B, which is sexually transmitted. Some are opposed to them all. It is absolutely the parents choice, it is their God given right to decide what is best for their child. This is not a communist country, this is America, we are supposed to value our rights and freedoms.

  46. Beelzebub says:

    “And that seniors who had the most flu shots had the highest chances of developing Alzheimers?”

    Proof source? Just because you say it doesn’t make it true. If the flu shot was proven to cause the onset or of Alzheimer’s the product package insert would contain a BIG BLACK BOX. It’s doesn’t. I have also heard that aluminum cooking pots cause Alzheimers. Why don’t you get your little hatchet out and demand all all alumimum products get banned? Fight freedom to enhance your own personal liberty. Fish contains mercury. Why don’t you protest fish at your local supermarket?

    The vaccines you listed are easily tolerated by a 2 mo old infant. Would you rather have the infant get lockjaw after getting stuck with a dirty nail or from playing in the dirt? Would you rather your child get polio and be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his or her natural life? Hepatitis B is nasty and destroys healthy liver cells. It causes chronic fatigue, depression, weight loss, even cirrhosis. So what would be more damaging to a child in your expert opinion? A vaccine or cirrhosis of the liver? Pick one.

    It should not be the ‘parent’s choice’ to put their child in danger based on all the medical knowledge we have accumulated. Parents should NOT have that right. That’s where you are all wet.

    “This is not a communist country, this is America, we are supposed to value our rights and freedoms”

    Unfortunately society is forced to protect others from idiots. As I said before – I am not allowed to walk up and punch someone in the nose. And parents are not allowed to endanger their children by refusing to act responsibly and get their children vaccinated.

    “Freedom” has a nice ring to it – but too much of it destroys empires. A darvon pill works wonders for a headache. But a whole bottle of it at once will result in death. Think!

  47. Truth says:

    “For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline.” – 2 Timothy 1:7

    When it comes to vaccines…

    A large number of proponents are gripped by fear.

    Pharmaceutical companies are blinded by greed.

    The medical profession is in a state of blantant denial.

    Examine the 2 camps: vaxers vs. non-vaxers, the venom spewed from the vaxers camp is overly obvious. It’s as if they are under conviction of their own fears and lashing out at those who have embraced this issue objectively and rationally.

    If the shots work as advertised, then why are people so worried about their vaxed kids getting sick?

    Optimal health and immune response is obtained with NUTRIENTS, sensible hygiene, proper food storage, and maintaining a healthy lifestyle; not by injecting mutated pathogens from foreign RNA/DNA sources mixed in neurotoxic compounds with the intent of stimulating a completely unnatural, overtaxing response of the immune system.

    Claiming that vaccines are pro-health and good for the immune system follows along the same lines of the logic as repeatedly driving your car into a telephone pole to condition yourself in the event you get into a real accident.

  48. Bob says:

    Bub, if vaccines are so safe why are vaccine manufacturers often exempt from legal liability? (For example, the swine flu vaccine manufacturers)

    Also, if you think vaccines aren’t dangerous just ask some of those in the military who were forced to take them.

    Eventually, the totalitarians in Colliefornia (as Ahnode sez) will force the most dangerous concoctions into the bodies of infants, mark my words.

  49. Bob says:

    And the same corrupt and idiotical politicians who force the bullet train down our throats and bankrupt the state with endless spending can be trusted to NOT make even more disasterous decisions regarding vaccines?

    Geez, get real…

  50. Bob says:

    It amazes me that the gummit you decry on so many levels you trust entirely with your health. (You pushed for sociialized medicine in some other posts.)

  51. Sylvia says:

    According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, the world’s leading immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals): If an individual has had 5 consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied) his/her chances of getting Alzheimer’s Disease is 10 times higher than if he/she had one, 2 or no shots. Dr. Fudenberg said it was so and that it was due to mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot. The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction.

    Flu shots contain 25 micrograms of mercury. One microgram is considered toxic.

  52. Beelzebub says:

    “Pharmaceutical companies are blinded by greed.

    The medical profession is in a state of blantant denial”

    And the earth is flat too! :)

    What the frack don’t you understand about ‘there is no profit in manufacturing vaccines’? Educate yourself. The government is having a hell of a time getting pharma companies to stay in that line of business. Didn’t you read the news during the Swine flu outbreak? There are only a couple generic companies that continue to make these vaccines SINCE THERE IS NO MONEY IN IT!!!

    And are 99% of the pediatricians in America in denial? Go talk to 100 pediatricians and ask them if vaccinations are critically important for children and for society. 99 will tell you ‘AB-SO-TUTELY!’ Vaccinations account for about 1% of a pediatricians income. If the really wanted to make money they would call for the ban of vaccinations and their offices would be PACKED FULL of little babies and children with life-threatening and debilitating disease.

    What the hell is wrong with you people anyway???

    “If the shots work as advertised, then why are people so worried about their vaxed kids getting sick?”

    The majority of humans are ignorant and latch onto scary stories like a salmon swallows a herring. Most people catastrophize before learning the FACTS. Just like some people on this board.

    “Claiming that vaccines are pro-health and good for the immune system follows along the same lines of the logic as repeatedly driving your car into a telephone pole to condition yourself in the event you get into a real accident”

    Pure ignorance. Not even worth a rebuttal.

  53. Beelzebub says:

    “Bub, if vaccines are so safe why are vaccine manufacturers often exempt from legal liability?”

    Hey bob, tell us exactly how many lawsuits have been filed against pharma companies for the Swine flu vaccine? How many people died from it??? How many people were crippled?

    “Also, if you think vaccines aren’t dangerous just ask some of those in the military who were forced to take them”

    What are you referring to? The Tuskegee Airman? Come on, Bob. For Christ sakes, you’re better than that. Do you belong to the Gary Null fan club?

    I was in the military and I felt like a damn pin cushion back in reception center and basic. I’m fine. And so are all my pals who I served with. And I haven’t heard of any class action suits in the last 40 years over it either. So stop it with your scare tactics. It’s unbecoming.

    “Eventually, the totalitarians in Colliefornia (as Ahnode sez) will force the most dangerous concoctions into the bodies of infants, mark my words”

    Here, bob. I linked this before but apparently you missed it. Please educate yourself with the modern facts. Let’s stop encouraging hysteria and get in touch with REAL FACTUAL medical evidence:

    http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/top-20-questions-about-vaccination

  54. Beelzebub says:

    “It amazes me that the gummit you decry on so many levels you trust entirely with your health. (You pushed for sociialized medicine in some other posts.)”

    Bob, I am not into blind hate. I actually research the FACTS and base my opinions on such. I am balanced and fair. I know that’s hard for some to stomach. But I am not going to change to appease certain ideologies here.

    Once again, read the answers to the 20 questions linked above and the actual MEDICAL EVIDENCE.

    Prejudiced, blind hate is a terrible thing.

  55. Beelzebub says:

    “According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, the world’s leading immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals): If an individual has had 5 consecutive flu shots between 1970 and 1980 (the years studied) his/her chances of getting Alzheimer’s Disease is 10 times higher than if he/she had one, 2 or no shots. Dr. Fudenberg said it was so and that it was due to mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot. The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction”

    Link the study. Your word does not suffice. Proof source please. You should know better than that.

  56. Beelzebub says:

    For all you liberals out there masquerading as conservatives – even your hero naturopathic physician, Andrew Weil, MD, says that there is no credible evidence that the additives in vaccines cause or accelerate Alzheimer’s disease in people. And this guy questions modern medical practices all the time!

    Furthermore, the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) published a a peer reviewed ethical medical study on Nov 3, 2004 that showed annual flu shots in older adults reduced the risk of death from all causes! In fact, in 2001 a major Canadian medical journal peer reveiwed study showed that Alzheimer’s risk declines among those vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus, polio, and influenza.

    Don’t let blind hate against the government make you stupid! ;)

  57. Beelzebub says:

    Oh my gawd. Another new-age website. Do they document face to face visits with martians and ride-a-longs in spaceships too? :)

  58. […] Read the article Share with Stumblers Share on technorati Tumblr it Tell a friend This entry was posted in Refusers Newsroom. Bookmark the permalink. ← Guilty Gardasil maker Merck pays $322 million criminal fine for improperly touting Vioxx safety – Bloomberg […]

  59. leftandsowhat says:

    Me thinks most of these parents are home study families and therefore are against anything the state advises. All it takes is one unfortunate outbreak and watch these parents rush to the vaccine clinics. Do you honestly think the Pediatric & Doctors’ associations would support this without due research ?

  60. J3 says:

    Beezlebub, vaccines are a a profitable business and have been for a number of years. If you fall the business press you’ll see that. Here’s one article: http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/a_shot_in_the_arm_for_the_vaccine_industry.html

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