Unhappy Californians unwilling to change

September 24, 2012 - By Steven Greenhut

Sept. 24, 2012

By Steven Greenhut

SACRAMENTO — California residents are depressed about the economy and see little hope for change in the near future, yet they seem more reluctant than ever to change the current high-tax, union-dominated political course that has led to the struggling economy.

As the Field Poll revealed in July, “Californians have had an extremely gloomy view of the state’s economy since 2008. … Currently nine out of 10 residents … describe the state’s economy as being in bad times.” The data is a couple months old, but nothing suggests any drastic change since then.

Meanwhile, the latest polling for the two highest-profile November ballot initiatives brings good news for those who embrace the status quo. A Public Policy Institute of California survey shows Gov. Jerry Brown’s Proposition 30, which would temporarily increase the state sales tax and income taxes on those earning at least $250,000 a year, ahead, 52 percent to 40 percent. By the way, how often have you met a temporary tax hike that actually goes away?

Furthermore, PPIC reports that voters have soured on perhaps the most significant statewide initiative on the statewide ballot, Proposition 32, a “paycheck protection” measure that is losing, 49 percent to 42 percent. (Even though support for it is fading, PPIC found a solid majority of voters in favor of the goals of the initiative, which makes California voters even more perplexing.)

The proposition stops the state’s politically dominant unions from using automatic payroll deductions to finance their political activities. The initiative has some other features, such as a bans on political payroll deductions from corporations, on direct giving to political candidates and on political donations from government contractors seeking favors.

Pointless

But these other provisions are mostly pointless. Corporations do not use payroll deductions to fund political efforts. Following the U.S. Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision in 2010, few corporations or unions give political contributions directly to candidates, preferring to use independent campaigns to help chosen candidates. Typical of all initiatives, Prop. 32 includes a few provisions that are meant more to sway voters than to change policy.

Nevertheless, the core issue here — restricting those payroll deductions that are the foundation of union political power — is not just principled, but crucial if California voters are serious about moving the state away from its current political and economic trajectory.

No one should have their money taken by force and used for political purposes that often are at odds with one’s beliefs. No one should have money deducted automatically from their paycheck and given to a private organization without one’s consent. This is a freedom issue as well as a political-influence issue. The current situation is pure coercion.

Under Prop. 32, the unions can still deduct an agency fee from members’ paychecks to pay for collective-bargaining activities. Ironically, liberal groups are complaining that corporations and conservative donors are funding ads supporting Prop. 32, even as massive union spending, thanks to the current forced-donation situation that Prop. 32 addresses, is pounding the initiative with ads making dubious claims about exemptions for wealthy businesses.

States that have passed paycheck-protection-type laws have seen mixed results because of various loopholes and legal challenges, but there’s little question that public- and private-sector union political influence has been reduced in those states. A study by the conservative Heritage Foundation found that, on average, state laws that limit these political payroll reductions slash union political contributions in half. Unions are still able to raise plenty of money — but they have to ask for it rather than just take it.

Death Star

One major California union called Prop. 32 “the Death Star for unions,” which is an overstatement, but illustrates how concerned the unions are about this proposition.

Consider why it is on the Nov. 6 ballot. Last year, Brown signed Senate Bill 202, requiring ballot initiatives to be decided during general elections, not during lower-turnout primary elections. “Everyone knows that passing SB 202 was to diminish chances that voters would pass a so-called ‘paycheck protection’ measure that would eat into unions’ ability to gather campaign funds from public employees — money that almost always goes to Democrats,” opined Sacramento Bee columnist Dan Walters.

Brown was elected with strong support from unions and has governed in a way that usually puts their priorities first. The Democratic Party, which controls every statewide constitutional office and could soon have two-thirds control of both houses of the Legislature, is always doing the bidding of the unions. If this doesn’t change, it’s hard to envision an optimistic future here.

Some Democrats understand how unions are destroying public services.

Former Democratic state Sen. Gloria Romero of Los Angeles is a spokesperson for Prop. 32, because she — as a devoted education reformer — has watched the teachers’ union squelch reform and turn California’s public schools into bureaucratic nightmares.

“If we don’t deal with how the beast is fed, and what maintains that, and what gives it status and opportunity to run roughshod over the educational lives and futures of 6 million kids in California, then shame on us,” Romero told the Wall Street Journal’s Allysia Finley.

Even the San Francisco Chronicle, which opposed Prop. 32 in an editorial, grasps the heart of the problem: “There is no question that organized labor has a powerful grip on the state Capitol, and that works against the public’s interest on issues such as education reform, government efficiency and pension reform.”

Then why not take serious steps to loosen that grip? If California voters reject Prop. 32 and support Prop. 30, the unions will maintain their financial control over the political process, and all Californians will pay more to prop up the current dysfunctional system. And, no doubt, the same California voters will continue to tell pollsters how unhappy they are with the current state of affairs.

Steven Greenhut is vice president of journalism at the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity; write to him at: steven.greenhut@franklincenterhq.org.

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Comments(58)
  1. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Prop 30 is DOA, that will be a wake up call to Clown and his toadies.

  2. Douglas says:

    “By the way, how often have you met a temporary tax hike that actually goes away?”

    Didn’t the ones Arnold passed in 2009 go away in 2011?

  3. NTHEOC says:

    NTHEOC says:
    September 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    Here’s some info Rex

    Prop 32 was written to limit the voice of union workers and create special exemptions for corporate interests, giving the wealthy and well-connected even more political power to write their own set of rules.

    Prop 32 exempts secretive Super PACs and corporate front groups, which can raise unlimited amounts of money from corporate special interests and billionaire businessmen to support their candidates or defeat their enemies. The measure does nothing to prevent anonymous donors from spending unlimited amounts to influence elections.

    Prop 32 is NOT campaign finance reform, as its backers claim. The wealthy supporters of this initiative created exemptions for Wall St. hedge funds, real estate investors, insurance companies and other well-heeled special interests allowing them to continue contributing directly to the coffers of political candidates.

    Prop 32 would severely restrict union members in both the public and private sector from having a voice in our political process. As a result, teachers, nurses, firefighters, police and other everyday heroes would be unable to speak out on issues that matter to us all—like cuts to our schools and colleges, police and fire response times, patient safety and workplace protections.

    This measure would give corporate CEOs and their lobbyists even greater influence over our political system. Corporations already outspend unions 15-1 in politics. This measure would effectively clear the playing field of any opposition to big corporations’ agenda, which includes outsourcing jobs, gutting homeowner protections, slashing wages and health benefits and attacking retirement security.

    Non-partisan groups like the California League of Women Voters, California Common Cause, Public Citizen and Public Campaign, who advocate for policies that curb special interest influence, are urging voters to REJECT Prop 32. Public Citizen calls it “an attack on labor masquerading as campaign finance reform”. California Common Cause says it “will do more harm to California’s democracy than good.”

    The primary financial backers are retired CEOs and millionaires associated with the extreme right-wing Lincoln Club of Orange County. All of the primary funders of the measure would benefit personally from the exemptions created for certain companies and organizations.
    VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. SeeSaw says:

    The business columnist for the LA Times stated in so many words, “The Perpetrators of this proposition must think you are stupid–really, really stupid!”

    I read that the Koch Bros. just made a large donation to the “Yes” on 32 campaign. What better reason is there, than support from them, for the average middle-class voter to reject it. Vote “NO” on prop. 32.

  5. Douglas says:

    “No one should have their money taken by force and used for political purposes that often are at odds with one’s beliefs.”

    Though I never had any desire to do so, I know it is possible to opt out of the political portion of deductions. I don’t know how difficult it is, or how many people take advantage of this, or how much is saved, but it IS possible to opt out.

    IUOE has much lower union dues. I understand SEIU or CTA have much higher dues, and workers can save $30 plus dollars per month by opting out. I understand those who opt out cannot vote on contracts or other union issues. I don’t know if there are other drawbacks.

    If my union were supporting causes in odds with my beliefs, I would stop those deductions.

    This is a political-influence issue, pure and simple.

    CHARLES MUNGER, JR.did not donate $635,035 to YES on 32 because he is concerned about my finances or my beliefs.

  6. SeeSaw says:

    My union dues were less than $15/mo. The most our union group ever did politically was give a few hundred dollars to the City Council campaign of a candidate whose platform supported our needs. Union membership was not even a requirement and those who did not join received all the benefits of the MOU anyway. I support fair-share dues–fair share dues can only be used for administrative costs of the union. One who does not want his/her political opinion to be in the mix–just pay your fair share.

  7. Dyspeptic says:

    “Non-partisan groups like the California League of Women Voters, California Common Cause, Public Citizen and Public Campaign, who advocate for policies that curb special interest influence, are urging voters to REJECT Prop 32″

    NTHEOC, making ridiculous claims like this only enhances your credibility with nincompoops and union hacks. We certainly have some of those here but if you want to impress the adults, please stop it. All of the groups you listed here are left/liberal elite special interests themselves. It is ludicrous to characterize them as non partisan. That refers only to their IRS tax status as non profits, which requires a “non-partisan” claim. The IRS rarely investigates these bogus claims. Do you really think that Media Matters is non-partisan? How about Jesse Jacksons “Rainbow PUSH”? Just because they don’t have Obama/Biden 2012 tattoos on their foreheads doesn’t mean they’re non-partisan.

    Also, don’t get yourself all worked up over the prospect that “Prop 32 would severely restrict union members in both the public and private sector from having a voice in our political process.” Why not? Because labor cartels would still have mountains of money and pervasive political influence in a left wing state like Kalifornia and most importantly, because dunderheaded Kali. voters don’t have enough sense to rein in the union puppet masters who really run the state.

    The main point of Greenhut’s article is that Kali. voters are deeply dissatisfied with the status quo but are too clueless to change anything. That’s why the state will inevitably degenerate into a Spanish speaking version of Greece. The die is cast.

    Just remember, we need Antonio Villaraigosa for Governor. That will fix everything :-)

  8. queeg says:

    One old poodle…..Prop 30 will pass easily….what alternatives have you given us to balance the budget and meet all state obligations by contract law? Your pitiful,inept, irrlevalent and unwanted, tony party elites line their pockets and throw you tiny tiny crumbs….you repeat the same stale,dumb,unworkable talking points…juvenile on all levels…anyone who reads your hundreds of fourth grade level posts and pathetic personal insults on virtually ever subject on the planet have to be wanting for better…….your so wrong all the time….now await your gutter level retort!!!

  9. Douglas says:

    Unconfirmed information: For the last ten years, SEIU averages 10% non-germane membership. 28,000 members last year whose money was not taken “without their consent”

    “payroll deductions for political purposes without consent” is not entirely true.

  10. carlos says:

    Unions are big business lets not forget that, but its the union bosses who make all the money!! and they want to keep raking it in.

  11. Tax Target says:

    Hey Queeg watch what happens when 30 passes. All us tax targets are moving out…. then you will be the tax target my friend… enjoy!

  12. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    Poody poodle will be 0 for 11 ™ come 11-6-12 !!! So far he has Never won a prediction out here— I have previously posted the archives from here and calpensions—-he has misread EVERY one of his famous preditions.

    He is such an underdog, I am almost rooting for him to win this one so he can claim 1 for 12>>>>>

  13. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Didn’t the ones Arnold passed in 2009 go away in 2011?

    No, they were VOTED down, they didn’t o away as they had said they would.

    No such ting as a “temporary tax”. Never was never will be. The Golden Gate and Bay Bridge’s both had “temporary toll taxes” starting in November 1935 and March 1936….guess what, still there, nearly 100 years old.

  14. Douglas says:

    If you are a tax target moving out of California, be very careful:

    WE’RE (not) NUMBER ONE !!

    In PER CAPITA terms, fourteen other states pay higher sales tax than California.

    If sales taxes are considered regressive because lower income families spend a higher percentage of income on taxable goods, how does California compare to states like Mississippi and Alabama, which charge full sales tax on groceries?
    Many other states either charge sales tax on food at a lower rate, or charge the full sales tax rate and have some kind of rebate program for lower income families.

    In TOTAL state plus local taxes, eleven other states have higher per capita taxes than California. Depending on the size and source of your income, you could end up paying MORE tax than in California, even with a lower nominal rate.

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230
    http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-general-sales-tax-collections-capita-fiscal-year-2010
    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=593

    If you live in California and make more than $250,000 (taxable) just donate any extra marginal income to the Mormon Church and write it off your taxes.

  15. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    My union dues were less than $15/mo

    Average teacher unions ides are over $1000 per month.

    One old poodle…..Prop 30 will pass easily….

    $100 bucks teddy-put up or shut up

    Hey Queeg watch what happens when 30 passes.
    Prop 30 is not passing, take that to the bank :)

    Poody poodle will be 0 for 11 ™ come 11-6-12 !!!

    18-0 on Nov 6 Teddy. ;)

  16. Douglas says:

    AS I recall, they were scheduled to end in 2010. Brown tried to get the Republicans to put an extension on the ballot, but they wouldn’t go for it.

    So the taxes died a natural death.

    Ask Greenhut. He should know.

  17. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    AS I recall, they were scheduled to end in 2010. Brown tried to get the Republicans to put an extension on the ballot, but they wouldn’t go for it.
    ==
    Oh brother, must I school you eternally, go back abd read props 1a-1g troughie.

  18. Douglas says:

    A little birdie told me average teacher union dues are over $1,000 per month.

    What has my bird been inhaling?

  19. BobA says:

    I’ve never been in a union and never understood the rationale for joining a union and don’t see the utility in being in a union.

    The only exposure to unions I have is my credit union and that’s because I get a better rate of return on their financial products than what banks current offer and I don’t get the letters and calls from financial planners and investment advisers looking to enrich themselves at my expense.

  20. Douglas says:

    Not to be nit-picky, but I understand Arnold signed a TEMPORARY tax in Feb. The attempt to extend the temporary tax in May of 2009 (1A) failed, and the temporary taxes expired as originally planned.

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/prop-zero/Temporary-Taxes-Cynicism-George-Will-Jerry-Brown-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-166071716.html

  21. SeeSaw says:

    Rex, the Republicans in the Legislature refused to allow a ballot measure to extend GAS’s temporary taxes, so they had to die a natural death in 2011. Sometimes you need to go to school too.

  22. SeeSaw says:

    That was after they were voted down, during GAS’s Administration, in May of 2009–by 13% of the eligible voters. The Governor’s effort to keep them alive began with his term in 2010.

  23. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Rex, the Republicans in the Legislature refused to allow a ballot measure to extend GAS’s temporary taxes, so they had to die a natural death in 2011. Sometimes you need to go to school too.

    seesaw, that made me cry ;)

  24. BobA says:

    The author of this article is kidding himself when he says, quote: “No one should have their money taken by force”. That’s a fantasy that doesn’t exist in the real world.

    If he were talking about common criminals, I would agree with him but the fact of the matter is the government has all the power (the law) and authority (guns) it needs to threaten you and/or take anything they want from you by force if & when necessary and there’s nothing anyone can about.

    That’s an undeniable fact of life.

  25. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    In PER CAPITA terms, fourteen other states pay higher sales tax than California.

    Dude put the crack pipe DOWN, the HIGHETS sales tax in the nation is CA. Period.

    Go home troughie, you’re in over your head here, let the Big Dogs play ;)

  26. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Tennessee came in as the state with the highest combined state and local sales tax rate with a top combined rate of 9.44%. After Tennessee, the states with the highest state and local sales tax rates are California (9.08%), Arizona (9.01%), Louisiana (8.69%), Washington (8.61%), New York (8.52%), Oklahoma (8.33%), Illinois (8.22%), Arkansas (8.10%) and Alabama (8.03%).

    http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/Sales-tax-rates-highest-and-lowest.htm

  27. Douglas says:

    California has the highest sales tax RATE.

    Per capita is a Latin prepositional phrase:

    It is commonly and usually used in the field of statistics in place of saying “for each person”

    In this case,it means that, even if one state has a lower sales tax RATE, the residents may spend MORE of their income on sales tax.

    If, for instance, that state charges sales tax on GROCERIES, which is a large portion of the spending for lower income families.

    e.g.  ”In PER CAPITA terms, fourteen other states pay higher sales tax than California.”

    OR:” In TOTAL state plus local taxes, eleven other states pay higher per capita taxes than California.”

    (e.g. means “for example” it’s from the latin “exempli gratia”)

  28. Ted Steele, Associate Prof. says:

    Why support a Koch Bros fiasco? We’ll let the republiteabaaaaaas follow their corp. masters!

  29. BobA says:

    Ted Steele:

    And democrats don’t have their corporate masters?? Shall I name names or do you wish to back off that statement? You conveniently disregard the fact that ALL politicians are bought and paid for. It is foolish and naive to think otherwise and from your rhetoric and obvious political bent, you are both.

  30. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Troughie, SALES TAX IS SALES TAX, and CA has the HIGHEST. It is a % paid on a purchase, there is no PER CAPITA sales tax.

    Man, I hate fools who are clueless.

    Now go home troughie, you’re in over your head here…………….

  31. Douglas says:

    And here I was trying to be polite.

    California has 7.25% sales tax. The average person pays $840 per year.

    Mississippi has 7% sales tax. The average person pays $961 per year.

    The per capita sales tax is higher in Mississippi because they are taxed for groceries, while California is not.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-general-sales-tax-collections-capita-fiscal-year-2010

  32. BobA says:

    Douglas:

    In Los Angeles county the sales tax rate is 8.75%. If the proposed sales tax increase passes, it will go to 9.25%.

  33. Douglas says:

    Understood, Bob. My point was that the highest tax rate doesn’t necessarily mean we pay the highest total sales tax. One big difference is groceries. Probably more than half of my discretionary spending is for groceries. If California levied sales tax on groceries, it would more than double the amount of sales tax I pay.

    The same principle holds for income tax. California may have one of the higher rates, but NOT the highest average tax bill For one thing, California does NOT tax social security pensions. Some other states do. And differences in allowable deductions and tax credits will change the total tax bill.

    Forbes has a list of the 10 most taxed states in the country. California did not make the list:

    http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/30/highest-state-taxes-lifestyle-real-estate-state-taxes_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=undefined

    I am NOT saying we don’t pay enough tax, or that our tax should be increased. I am saying that the nominal tax rate alone does not tell the whole story.

  34. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    Well said Douglas—

  35. BobA says:

    Douglas:

    You’ll get no argument from me. California also has the second highest excise tax on gasoline in the nation right behind North Carolina.

    On a scale from 1 thru 50, California ranks 46 on the cost of living index. On that scale, the higher the number, the higher the cost of living. California also ranks poorly in the cost of doing business category.

    It also stands to reason that California’s ranking will drop even further after the upcoming election.

  36. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    California has 7.25% sales tax. The average person pays $840 per year.

    Mississippi has 7% sales tax. The average person pays $961 per year.
    ==
    You truly are dumber than a bag og rocks Dougie.

    WHO CARES what the “average” person PAYS in MS- or anywhere else????????????? The SALES TAX RATE is what counts, your clown in MS would be payng MORE if he had a 10.25% CA sales tax vs a 7% MS sales tax, and 10.25% is what some LA cities charge.

  37. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Understood, Bob. My point was that the highest tax rate doesn’t necessarily mean we pay the highest total sales tax
    ==
    Actually that is exactly what it means, the highest sales tax means you pay the highest total sales tax per dollar of taxable goods.

  38. Douglas says:

    You have my sympathy.

  39. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    :)

  40. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    0 for 10 ™

    oh my

    easy.

  41. BobA says:

    What I don’t understand is that a lot of Californians never complain about high taxes until they actually have to pay them and then go out a vote for even higher taxes.

    Now, I’m a logical thinker who is well grounded in reality and I have no patience for nuanced facts. I like the truth whole, naked, uncut and bloody raw. Here are a few truths that will very likely come to pass if the state stays on it’s current trajectory. By the year 2020:

    1- The top income marginal tax rate in California will average around 20%
    2- State sale tax will be upwards of 12%
    3- The state’s unemployment rate will hover around 20 -25%
    4- The number of people receiving some form of state aide will be in excess of 40%
    5- The average salary of state employees will exceed $200k per year
    6- Manufacturing will abandon the state altogether.
    7- 80% of the jobs will be minimum wage jobs.
    8- Homelessness will become an epic problem in California.
    9- Crime rates will explode to the point where the police will cordon of high crime areas of cities and label them as war zones and no longer patrol or prosecute crimes committed in those areas.

  42. Logs says:

    I was Born and raised in California. I must be living in a parallel universe. Where can I get some of that kool aid. I want it

  43. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    #8 is already here.

  44. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Yes BobA, as Jesus said, “you hate me because I tell you the truth.”

    That is NOT what Jesus said champ, he said; “DO you hate me because I tell you the truth.”

  45. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    Calpers value today 243.6 billion baby. Take the rest of the day off fellas.

  46. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    John 8:45 Wrong again little buddy! 0 for 11 ™

    New International Version (©1984)
    Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    But it is because I speak the truth that you do not believe me.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    “But you are not believing in me, I who am speaking the truth.”

    GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    So you don’t believe me because I tell the truth.

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    And because I tell you the truth, you believe me not.

    American King James Version
    And because I tell you the truth, you believe me not.

    American Standard Version
    But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But if I say the truth, you believe me not.

    Darby Bible Translation
    and because I speak the truth, ye do not believe me.

    English Revised Version
    But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    Weymouth New Testament
    But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me.

    World English Bible
    But because I tell the truth, you don’t believe me.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    ‘And because I say the truth, ye do not believe me.

  47. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    Or you could try Galations little fella but the you’d be 0 for 12 ™ !

    New International Version (©1984)
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Have I now become your enemy because I am telling you the truth?

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    So have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    So have I now become your enemy for telling you the truth?

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    Have I become an enemy to you because I have preached the truth to you?

    GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    Can it be that I have become your enemy for telling you the truth?

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    American King James Version
    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    American Standard Version
    So then am I become your enemy, by telling you the truth?

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Am I then become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    Darby Bible Translation
    So I have become your enemy in speaking the truth to you?

    English Revised Version
    So then am I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

    Weymouth New Testament
    Can it be that I have become your enemy through speaking the truth to you?

    World English Bible
    So then, have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?

    Young’s Literal Translation
    so that your enemy have I become, being true to you?

  48. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Calpers value today 243.6 billion baby.
    ==
    CalTURDS UNFUNDED liabilitry today $500 BILLIONB, with a B baby. Will be BK inside 30 years.

    Prop 30 DOA too.

  49. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Teddy, stop the copy and paste OK.

    Anyone can google a link and post a bazillion words in a comment, and no oen will read it;

    http://bible.cc/john/8-45.htm

    22-0 BABY :)

  50. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    The poodle HATES to be constantly proven wrong……..mmmmmmmmmmmm……….nice

  51. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    Poodle— NOW you say bk in 30 years? LOL—– last year you said within 5 years! Oh my — another prediction bites the dust!

    0 for 13 ™

  52. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    NOW you say bk in 30 years? LOL—– last year you said within 5 years!

    Show me where I SAID THAT FOOL!

    $100 if you can post it up.

  53. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    28-0 BABY!

  54. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    In 2011 you said it would be “very soon”— now you say bk in 30 years??? LOLOL

    Is 30 years “very soon? Because I’m good with that time frame little buddy!

  55. Edward Steele, Chief Investigator says:

    Rex The Wonder Dog! Says:

    November 30, 2011 at 7:52 pm
    Yes, the truth can be painful to seesaw and Teddy. I hope they place blame where it belongs when their house of cards falls apart, and it will, very soon.

    “very soon” now means 30 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL 0 for 13 little buddy! You make this too easy! Donate the 100 clams to your favorite Beckian charity!

  56. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    In 2011 you said it would be “very soon”— now you say bk in 30 years??? LOLOL
    =========

    Hahahhahaa…..looks like I smacked you down AGAIN teddy!!!!!!!

    I never said CalTURDS would be BK in 5 years, and now I am 29-0 against Teddy Steals (and lies too) ;)

  57. Rex the Wonder Dog! says:

    Edward “the Idiot” Steals, Chief Dorksays:

    Poodle— NOW you say bk in 30 years? LOL—– last year you said within 5 years! Oh my — another prediction bites the dust!
    ===============
    Still waiting for you to post up that “5 years” quite from “last year” troll man ;)

  58. BobA says:

    Eddy, Herman:

    I am not a religious person but your points are well taken. I don’t live in the past; I live in the here and now and prefer to deal with the problems we face now in order to change what’s to come and shape our future.

    I don’t see the Bible the way that you two do. To me it’s just a book on philosophy although I do regard it as the great book ever written. The nature of man is predicable and has not change since man has been on the face of this earth.

    The bible addresses the nature of man and the essence of Christ’s mission on earth was to admonish us all to rise up into the light of our higher selves or we will most surely descend into the darkness of our lower selves. Because we are sentient beings with free will, living in the darkness of our lower selves will only lead to our certain destruction.

    A sentient being that lives in the darkness of its lower self is selfish, resentful, conceited, conniving, greedy, amoral, hedonistic, vengeful, hateful, fearful, malicious, duplicitous and capable of committing the most vile, egregious and insane acts of evil without remorse or regret. The history of man is replete with such people and cultures.

    Today, many have forgotten or have chosen to eschew Christ’s admonitions. Thus we find the tide of fear and all its manifestations growing in intensity and is threatening to sweep both the innocent and guilty into the oblivion of the darkness.

    If we fail to heed the warnings of the Bible and live up to the ideals of the founders of this country, if we fail to act to right what is wrong and save ourselves, our state and our country before we pass the point of no return, the tide will not ebb until America is destroyed.

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