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	<title>
	Comments on: Pensions push state to insolvency	</title>
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	<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Lynold		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-342</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Mar 2011 07:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-342</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow,
After 26 years with the state I am going to make a whopping
30,000 a year!!!! Wow I can buy a closet for that much.
Where in the hell are these golden goose egg retirements
we are going to get? Oh by the way Wisconsin has over 300,000
government employees that have a retirement that is totally
paid for by the taxpayers. It has a population in the whole state
of just over 6 million people. California has 10 times the
population not including illegal immigration and has a work
force of 240,000 blue collar workers. We pay into our retirements
and we pay taxes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow,<br />
After 26 years with the state I am going to make a whopping<br />
30,000 a year!!!! Wow I can buy a closet for that much.<br />
Where in the hell are these golden goose egg retirements<br />
we are going to get? Oh by the way Wisconsin has over 300,000<br />
government employees that have a retirement that is totally<br />
paid for by the taxpayers. It has a population in the whole state<br />
of just over 6 million people. California has 10 times the<br />
population not including illegal immigration and has a work<br />
force of 240,000 blue collar workers. We pay into our retirements<br />
and we pay taxes.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: RU Serious		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-341</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RU Serious]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 02:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-341</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[spreading your twisted lies and bogus info oco! we all have college degrees and never get hired at 20 y/o.. sorry but the safety of the public will always be a top priority and last to be cut…thats a fact,jack.”

Complete Horse s%^t!

I’m tired of all the whining from the private-sector riff-raff. When I watch you poor suckers going to work to pay my pension I have to laugh. You were all clueless about the whole system. Did any of you ever even vote? You chumps deserve those canned beans you’ll be eating. As for me, I’ll be having lobster. So long suckers!


You&#039;ll die and rot in hell before costing us much, lol! Karma&#039;s a bitch.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spreading your twisted lies and bogus info oco! we all have college degrees and never get hired at 20 y/o.. sorry but the safety of the public will always be a top priority and last to be cut…thats a fact,jack.”</p>
<p>Complete Horse s%^t!</p>
<p>I’m tired of all the whining from the private-sector riff-raff. When I watch you poor suckers going to work to pay my pension I have to laugh. You were all clueless about the whole system. Did any of you ever even vote? You chumps deserve those canned beans you’ll be eating. As for me, I’ll be having lobster. So long suckers!</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll die and rot in hell before costing us much, lol! Karma&#8217;s a bitch.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jerry		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 18:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: Jayne Q Public, john moore, OCO, et al views on Bankruptcy and vested pensions.

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution (powers of Congress), &quot;To establish...uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;&quot;

As to the issues on states rights, have a look at www.uscourts.gov/.../BankruptcyBasics/Chapter9.aspx for an discussion of municipal bankruptcy under Chapter 9 of the code.

Interestingly, someone who actually knows something, John Ryan, the Federal judge who presided over the largest municipal bankruptcy in history, Orange County&#039;s 1994 case, has said Federal bankruptcy code trumps state law, meaning protections offered by the state and cities don&#039;t have to apply.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Jayne Q Public, john moore, OCO, et al views on Bankruptcy and vested pensions.</p>
<p>Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution (powers of Congress), &#8220;To establish&#8230;uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;&#8221;</p>
<p>As to the issues on states rights, have a look at <a href="http://www.uscourts.gov/.../BankruptcyBasics/Chapter9.aspx" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.uscourts.gov/&#8230;/BankruptcyBasics/Chapter9.aspx</a> for an discussion of municipal bankruptcy under Chapter 9 of the code.</p>
<p>Interestingly, someone who actually knows something, John Ryan, the Federal judge who presided over the largest municipal bankruptcy in history, Orange County&#8217;s 1994 case, has said Federal bankruptcy code trumps state law, meaning protections offered by the state and cities don&#8217;t have to apply.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Think4Myself		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Think4Myself]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 23:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Envy may be defined as an emotion that &quot;occurs when a person lacks another&#039;s (perceived) superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it.&quot;

Envy can also derive from a sense of low self-esteem that results from an upward social comparison threatening a person&#039;s self image: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been he or she who had the desired object.

Bertrand Russell said envy was one of the most potent causes of unhappiness. It is a universal and most unfortunate aspect of human nature because not only is the envious person rendered unhappy by his envy, but also wishes to inflict misfortune on others.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Envy may be defined as an emotion that &#8220;occurs when a person lacks another&#8217;s (perceived) superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Envy can also derive from a sense of low self-esteem that results from an upward social comparison threatening a person&#8217;s self image: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been he or she who had the desired object.</p>
<p>Bertrand Russell said envy was one of the most potent causes of unhappiness. It is a universal and most unfortunate aspect of human nature because not only is the envious person rendered unhappy by his envy, but also wishes to inflict misfortune on others.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruzzy		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-338</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruzzy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-338</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This appears to me to be class warfare brought about by open borders and the financial burdends open borders places on citizens of the USA. Closing the borders will reduce spending, increase nationalism, reduce taxes, reduce imported socialism, and increase the individual wealth of working Americans. No more amnesties. The obstacle is the &quot;voter-be-damned&quot; attitude of the Federal Government which has upgraded itself to the &quot;voter-go-to-hell&quot; attitude. This attitude applies to the states as well, evidenced by unfunded Federal mandates. The only positive to come from class warfare is that citizens get mad enough to do something. I recommend the anger be channeled in more constructive ways. --Bruzzy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This appears to me to be class warfare brought about by open borders and the financial burdends open borders places on citizens of the USA. Closing the borders will reduce spending, increase nationalism, reduce taxes, reduce imported socialism, and increase the individual wealth of working Americans. No more amnesties. The obstacle is the &#8220;voter-be-damned&#8221; attitude of the Federal Government which has upgraded itself to the &#8220;voter-go-to-hell&#8221; attitude. This attitude applies to the states as well, evidenced by unfunded Federal mandates. The only positive to come from class warfare is that citizens get mad enough to do something. I recommend the anger be channeled in more constructive ways. &#8211;Bruzzy</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-337</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-337</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[City of Vallejo went to 3% @50 for public safety on June 30, 1995 as one factual example....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>City of Vallejo went to 3% @50 for public safety on June 30, 1995 as one factual example&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OCO, you are just an uninformed agitator.  You have no knowledge of any of the topics of which you choose to speak, and believe that because you think something that makes it right.  Go stick your head up your ass somewhere else.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OCO, you are just an uninformed agitator.  You have no knowledge of any of the topics of which you choose to speak, and believe that because you think something that makes it right.  Go stick your head up your ass somewhere else.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Tough Love		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-335</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tough Love]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-335</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quoting ...&quot; CHPMaster says:
February 24, 2010 at 2:14 pm

I’m tired of all the whining from the private-sector riff-raff. When I watch you poor suckers going to work to pay my pension I have to laugh. You were all clueless about the whole system. Did any of you ever even vote? You chumps deserve those canned beans you’ll be eating. As for me, I’ll be having lobster. So long suckers!&quot;

Boy, will it be a PLEASURE watching you squel &quot;but I was promised&quot; when (not if) your Plan defaults.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting &#8230;&#8221; CHPMaster says:<br />
February 24, 2010 at 2:14 pm</p>
<p>I’m tired of all the whining from the private-sector riff-raff. When I watch you poor suckers going to work to pay my pension I have to laugh. You were all clueless about the whole system. Did any of you ever even vote? You chumps deserve those canned beans you’ll be eating. As for me, I’ll be having lobster. So long suckers!&#8221;</p>
<p>Boy, will it be a PLEASURE watching you squel &#8220;but I was promised&#8221; when (not if) your Plan defaults.</p>
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		<title>
		By: OCO		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;You are so wrong. Fully one-third of local safety plans were 3% @50 OR BETTER prior to SB 400.&quot;

Wrong again.

Hey, I bet you were one of those GED educated cops that used to claim cops all die 5 years after retiring. Calpers put that whopper to rest a long time ago, so I don&#039;t see it much anymore. But now we have your  bogus claim.

No muni had 3%@50 before 2000, none, zero, nada. They all played leap frog AFTER SB 400. That is a well known fact.

Please feel free to prove me wrong though and post a link to the hundreds of PS jobs that had it prior to 1999.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You are so wrong. Fully one-third of local safety plans were 3% @50 OR BETTER prior to SB 400.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wrong again.</p>
<p>Hey, I bet you were one of those GED educated cops that used to claim cops all die 5 years after retiring. Calpers put that whopper to rest a long time ago, so I don&#8217;t see it much anymore. But now we have your  bogus claim.</p>
<p>No muni had 3%@50 before 2000, none, zero, nada. They all played leap frog AFTER SB 400. That is a well known fact.</p>
<p>Please feel free to prove me wrong though and post a link to the hundreds of PS jobs that had it prior to 1999.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: OCO		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/02/23/new-pensions-push-state-to-insolvency/#comment-333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=2342#comment-333</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are statutory requirements to put new taxes or bonds (case law) to the vote of the people, but there is also case law that prohibits the financial obligations of governmental entities to be discharged merely by voting them away.
===============
And since when is filing a BK petion a discharge of debt by &quot;voting them away&quot;???? It isn&#039;t.

The power lies with the BK court, not the muni &quot;voting&quot;. If a BK court were to see a muni, like Vallejo, where cops and FF&#039;s are making $250K per year, on average with their benefits, while the average income for a Vallejo resident is $34K, do you really think, for one second, that a BK judge is not going to strike the pensions down?

Besides, the BK court does NOT have the power to force a muni to raise taxes. That power lies purely with the residents, not the courts. The CA constitution requires a 2/3 majority to raise taxes, and the BK court could not force the muni to do that udner the 11th Amendment (the muni, as a state subdivision, would have 11th Amendment immunity) . A Chpt 9 BK is a strictly cash flow BK, not an asset/liability BK. The BK court cannot force a liquidation of muni assets.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are statutory requirements to put new taxes or bonds (case law) to the vote of the people, but there is also case law that prohibits the financial obligations of governmental entities to be discharged merely by voting them away.<br />
===============<br />
And since when is filing a BK petion a discharge of debt by &#8220;voting them away&#8221;???? It isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The power lies with the BK court, not the muni &#8220;voting&#8221;. If a BK court were to see a muni, like Vallejo, where cops and FF&#8217;s are making $250K per year, on average with their benefits, while the average income for a Vallejo resident is $34K, do you really think, for one second, that a BK judge is not going to strike the pensions down?</p>
<p>Besides, the BK court does NOT have the power to force a muni to raise taxes. That power lies purely with the residents, not the courts. The CA constitution requires a 2/3 majority to raise taxes, and the BK court could not force the muni to do that udner the 11th Amendment (the muni, as a state subdivision, would have 11th Amendment immunity) . A Chpt 9 BK is a strictly cash flow BK, not an asset/liability BK. The BK court cannot force a liquidation of muni assets.</p>
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