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	Comments on: Another economic dip coming?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Dexter60		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1510</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dexter60]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1510</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John::
We cannot learn anything by substituting one myth for another:

&quot;Even if Schwarzenegger could fire every state employee under his control — roughly 230,000 — it still wouldn’t balance the books.
That’s because roughly 70% of the state general fund flows out to local governments and schools, one of the unintended consequences of Proposition 13, which slashed the property tax 32 years ago.&quot;
So, to go deeper then.
Public employee unions? over-priced governance? selective law enforcement? where should we stop?

BTW -
Prop 13 did not create the problem of overspending, buying votes with taxpayer money and installing a welfare state on the backs of the few.
Soak the rich (say corporations) is an indicator of economic ignorance.
We no longer have a governance with the consent of the law-abiding governed but merely by the demands of the beneficiaries who have no concerns for the law beyond what it serves up to them.
Laws are written that rig the game and these laws, we are told, cannot be changed -- so to find out, when the money is really all gone, even the debts are worthless aren&#039;t they.
At once to notice over 500,000 government workers in California will be out of a job.
Basic but painful budget simplification.
How&#039;s the Hope and Change thing working for you?
Have a nice day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John::<br />
We cannot learn anything by substituting one myth for another:</p>
<p>&#8220;Even if Schwarzenegger could fire every state employee under his control — roughly 230,000 — it still wouldn’t balance the books.<br />
That’s because roughly 70% of the state general fund flows out to local governments and schools, one of the unintended consequences of Proposition 13, which slashed the property tax 32 years ago.&#8221;<br />
So, to go deeper then.<br />
Public employee unions? over-priced governance? selective law enforcement? where should we stop?</p>
<p>BTW &#8211;<br />
Prop 13 did not create the problem of overspending, buying votes with taxpayer money and installing a welfare state on the backs of the few.<br />
Soak the rich (say corporations) is an indicator of economic ignorance.<br />
We no longer have a governance with the consent of the law-abiding governed but merely by the demands of the beneficiaries who have no concerns for the law beyond what it serves up to them.<br />
Laws are written that rig the game and these laws, we are told, cannot be changed &#8212; so to find out, when the money is really all gone, even the debts are worthless aren&#8217;t they.<br />
At once to notice over 500,000 government workers in California will be out of a job.<br />
Basic but painful budget simplification.<br />
How&#8217;s the Hope and Change thing working for you?<br />
Have a nice day.</p>
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		<title>
		By: larry gilbert		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1509</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[larry gilbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 22:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1509</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John. Thanks for your words of encouragement.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John. Thanks for your words of encouragement.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tyler		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1508</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1508</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If there is so much of the corporate corruption taking place, then what are all of these government oversight agencies for? Isnt it their job to make sure none of that is going on? If the employees in those agencies were competant, a lot of these problems could have been avoided, but all they did was give everyone a false sense of security.

Bernie Madoff Played off of peoples greed, and if the SEC had done its job, he would have never been able to do what he did.

You cannot blame the economic collapse entirely on the corporations because there were government regulations, personal stupidity, &#038; personal greed that played a role in it as well. When the government started telling institutions who they had to lend to, that gave some morons the idea to just throw their traditional lending standards out the window. They started giving home loans to people that had no business buying a home, and that happened because of a combination of corporate greed, government regulation, and poor decicion making by individuals.

You wouldnt happen to be in the public relations business would you Steve?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there is so much of the corporate corruption taking place, then what are all of these government oversight agencies for? Isnt it their job to make sure none of that is going on? If the employees in those agencies were competant, a lot of these problems could have been avoided, but all they did was give everyone a false sense of security.</p>
<p>Bernie Madoff Played off of peoples greed, and if the SEC had done its job, he would have never been able to do what he did.</p>
<p>You cannot blame the economic collapse entirely on the corporations because there were government regulations, personal stupidity, &amp; personal greed that played a role in it as well. When the government started telling institutions who they had to lend to, that gave some morons the idea to just throw their traditional lending standards out the window. They started giving home loans to people that had no business buying a home, and that happened because of a combination of corporate greed, government regulation, and poor decicion making by individuals.</p>
<p>You wouldnt happen to be in the public relations business would you Steve?</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevefromSacto		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1507</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevefromSacto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 04:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1507</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But you ONLY talk about government as an &quot;institution that is overrun with corruption and abuse.&quot;

No mention of the corporate and financial excesses that led to the latest recession.  Bernie Madoff was just making money; nothing wrong with that.

And one more time, Tyler, I AM NOT A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE AND I DO NOT &quot;BENEFIT FROM CORRUPTION/DEAL MAKING/CALLING IN FAVORS.  I am just damn sick and tired of working Californians getting blamed for everything while corporate interests get to run free.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you ONLY talk about government as an &#8220;institution that is overrun with corruption and abuse.&#8221;</p>
<p>No mention of the corporate and financial excesses that led to the latest recession.  Bernie Madoff was just making money; nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>And one more time, Tyler, I AM NOT A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE AND I DO NOT &#8220;BENEFIT FROM CORRUPTION/DEAL MAKING/CALLING IN FAVORS.  I am just damn sick and tired of working Californians getting blamed for everything while corporate interests get to run free.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tyler		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1506</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 17:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1506</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What is wrong with companies making money? Many of those companies are publicly traded and many unions just happen to be shareholders, so those companies are obligated to operate in a manner that will maximize profits. Those companies also have an obligation to operate in a responsible &#038; legal manner and those who dont should suffer the consequences.

Do you think companies should just stop making money once they hit a certain amount of profits? They are simply meeting the demand of the market, which is the cornerstone of our society, so I see no problem with corporations making money, no matter if they are Oil companies, Solar panel companies, Electric Car Makers, etc.

I am not always anti-union &#038; anti-government, I am against those institutions that are overrun with corruption and abuse. Our government has been over stepping its boundaries in many aspects of our lives and neglecting the primary responsibilities that a government in in place for, all in a corrupt &#038; abusive manner. The unions of so called &quot;Public Servants&quot; only care about obtaining overinflated contracts that are economically unreasonable, they couldnt care less about serving the public. They do not care that those contracts are continuously leading to the decline of quality of our schools and all other aspects of society. They contribute to campaigns and call in favors to get these contracts pushed through and everyone can see whats going on, its no secret. I suppose since you benefit from all of that corruption/deal making/calling in favors, you are going to try to defend it and deflect attention to a different unrelated subject like you do on every subject.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is wrong with companies making money? Many of those companies are publicly traded and many unions just happen to be shareholders, so those companies are obligated to operate in a manner that will maximize profits. Those companies also have an obligation to operate in a responsible &amp; legal manner and those who dont should suffer the consequences.</p>
<p>Do you think companies should just stop making money once they hit a certain amount of profits? They are simply meeting the demand of the market, which is the cornerstone of our society, so I see no problem with corporations making money, no matter if they are Oil companies, Solar panel companies, Electric Car Makers, etc.</p>
<p>I am not always anti-union &amp; anti-government, I am against those institutions that are overrun with corruption and abuse. Our government has been over stepping its boundaries in many aspects of our lives and neglecting the primary responsibilities that a government in in place for, all in a corrupt &amp; abusive manner. The unions of so called &#8220;Public Servants&#8221; only care about obtaining overinflated contracts that are economically unreasonable, they couldnt care less about serving the public. They do not care that those contracts are continuously leading to the decline of quality of our schools and all other aspects of society. They contribute to campaigns and call in favors to get these contracts pushed through and everyone can see whats going on, its no secret. I suppose since you benefit from all of that corruption/deal making/calling in favors, you are going to try to defend it and deflect attention to a different unrelated subject like you do on every subject.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevefromSacto		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1505</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevefromSacto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1505</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But you haven&#039;t said squat about the excesses of the corporations and the oil companies, Tyler, old buddy. It&#039;s anti-union and anti-government all the time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you haven&#8217;t said squat about the excesses of the corporations and the oil companies, Tyler, old buddy. It&#8217;s anti-union and anti-government all the time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tyler		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1504</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1504</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let me clarify this since it seems a little hard for you to comprehend. I wouldnt care how or where Calpers or Calsters invested their money if they were the ones who had to deal with the consequences of their actions, however, when they come and grab more tax money to make up for their failed investments, you better believe I have a problem with it. There is no reason why Calpers &#038; Calsters should receive any money from our taxes because their investments didnt work out well. Can you seriously sit there and say that you believe the taxpayers should be on the hook for the money lost by Calpers &#038; Calsters? Even though it was those unions who decided where that investent money went. They decided to put that money in a bad investment, why should they not have to deal with the consequences of their actions?

I have no problems with individual union workers, I have a problem with the way the unions are run and the way that they abuse bothe their own members and the taxpayers. I also have a problem with abuses by private companies. I believe that companies should be held accountable for any laws they break or damage they cause. I am not familiar with the corporate tax structure in general, so it is not something I can really comment on, other than the fact that if those corporations are taxed exessivly by our government, they will simply relocate to a state or country that is not as abusive, and the thing that you forget is that it is those businesses that create the wealth in our state &#038; country. The public employee unions do not create anything that adds value to society(other than a few depts that provide neccessary services like public safety like Law enforcement &#038; fire), they consume the tax dollars paid by those companies &#038; people who actually create valuable goods &#038; services. If you lose all of those businesses, you will have nobody to pay taxes that pays the salary &#038; benefits of all of the public employees, so those corporate tax breaks benefit the unions as well.

And im not sure if you noticed, but those corporate tax breaks and the preferential treatment of oil companies are both GOVERNMENT actions, so once again, it is the corrupt culture in our government that you have a problem with. So it looks like we finally found something we can agree on! I feel so close to you Steve!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me clarify this since it seems a little hard for you to comprehend. I wouldnt care how or where Calpers or Calsters invested their money if they were the ones who had to deal with the consequences of their actions, however, when they come and grab more tax money to make up for their failed investments, you better believe I have a problem with it. There is no reason why Calpers &amp; Calsters should receive any money from our taxes because their investments didnt work out well. Can you seriously sit there and say that you believe the taxpayers should be on the hook for the money lost by Calpers &amp; Calsters? Even though it was those unions who decided where that investent money went. They decided to put that money in a bad investment, why should they not have to deal with the consequences of their actions?</p>
<p>I have no problems with individual union workers, I have a problem with the way the unions are run and the way that they abuse bothe their own members and the taxpayers. I also have a problem with abuses by private companies. I believe that companies should be held accountable for any laws they break or damage they cause. I am not familiar with the corporate tax structure in general, so it is not something I can really comment on, other than the fact that if those corporations are taxed exessivly by our government, they will simply relocate to a state or country that is not as abusive, and the thing that you forget is that it is those businesses that create the wealth in our state &amp; country. The public employee unions do not create anything that adds value to society(other than a few depts that provide neccessary services like public safety like Law enforcement &amp; fire), they consume the tax dollars paid by those companies &amp; people who actually create valuable goods &amp; services. If you lose all of those businesses, you will have nobody to pay taxes that pays the salary &amp; benefits of all of the public employees, so those corporate tax breaks benefit the unions as well.</p>
<p>And im not sure if you noticed, but those corporate tax breaks and the preferential treatment of oil companies are both GOVERNMENT actions, so once again, it is the corrupt culture in our government that you have a problem with. So it looks like we finally found something we can agree on! I feel so close to you Steve!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevefromSacto		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1503</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevefromSacto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1503</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I guess CalPERS and CalStrs can&#039;t win.  When they lose money you complain. When they make money, you also complain about how they do it.

I agree that everyone should point out things that are wrong and unethical. But unfortunately, you and many others on this &quot;impartial&quot; web site would have us believe that the only people who ever do anything wrong or unethical are public employees, unions, and Democrats.  Not a word about corporate tax breaks, or preferential treatment of the oil companies, or PG&#038;E spending $40 million of our money (rate payers) to try to wipe out competition in the energy field.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess CalPERS and CalStrs can&#8217;t win.  When they lose money you complain. When they make money, you also complain about how they do it.</p>
<p>I agree that everyone should point out things that are wrong and unethical. But unfortunately, you and many others on this &#8220;impartial&#8221; web site would have us believe that the only people who ever do anything wrong or unethical are public employees, unions, and Democrats.  Not a word about corporate tax breaks, or preferential treatment of the oil companies, or PG&amp;E spending $40 million of our money (rate payers) to try to wipe out competition in the energy field.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tyler		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1502</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1502</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The reason why CalPERS &#038; Calsters was able to grow at such ridiculous rates is because they are able to make risky investments that reasonable people would never even consider, because if the bottom drops out of it, Calpers &#038; Calsters can just go to the general fund and get their money back, they dont have to figure in the worst case scenario when making investment decisions. The rest of the world has to consider RISK when they make investments. The reason why they were so devestated when the market crashed is because they had a disproportionate amount of their holdings in crap investment products.

And no, there is no pension envy going on here, I have no problem with people being able to retire without being forced to live on cat food and cereal. I do have a problem with the fact that tax payers are being forced to pay for it twice. We pay for it initially, then the fund managers funnel the money to the highest bidder, the money gets lost because the investments are crap, then the tax payers have to pay again to make up for the lost money. To make the situation even worse, the pension funds are drained even more by the pension spiking &#038; BS disability scams that run rampant through our public employee unions.

Since when does using common sense constitute someone being a &quot;Right Wing Clone?&quot; If I see something wrong &#038; unethical I will point it out. As far as I can tell, that should be something that everyone does, no matter if your on the right or the left.

Also, how long have you been holding on to that quote, just waiting for an opportunity to use it? You must have been really itching to get that one out because it was really forced. It was not relevant and did not even fit the context of the situation. I did not use any statistics to start with, so how did I use any statistics for support? Nice try though. Too bad you had to waste a cute quote when it wouldnt be appriciated. Better luck next time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason why CalPERS &amp; Calsters was able to grow at such ridiculous rates is because they are able to make risky investments that reasonable people would never even consider, because if the bottom drops out of it, Calpers &amp; Calsters can just go to the general fund and get their money back, they dont have to figure in the worst case scenario when making investment decisions. The rest of the world has to consider RISK when they make investments. The reason why they were so devestated when the market crashed is because they had a disproportionate amount of their holdings in crap investment products.</p>
<p>And no, there is no pension envy going on here, I have no problem with people being able to retire without being forced to live on cat food and cereal. I do have a problem with the fact that tax payers are being forced to pay for it twice. We pay for it initially, then the fund managers funnel the money to the highest bidder, the money gets lost because the investments are crap, then the tax payers have to pay again to make up for the lost money. To make the situation even worse, the pension funds are drained even more by the pension spiking &amp; BS disability scams that run rampant through our public employee unions.</p>
<p>Since when does using common sense constitute someone being a &#8220;Right Wing Clone?&#8221; If I see something wrong &amp; unethical I will point it out. As far as I can tell, that should be something that everyone does, no matter if your on the right or the left.</p>
<p>Also, how long have you been holding on to that quote, just waiting for an opportunity to use it? You must have been really itching to get that one out because it was really forced. It was not relevant and did not even fit the context of the situation. I did not use any statistics to start with, so how did I use any statistics for support? Nice try though. Too bad you had to waste a cute quote when it wouldnt be appriciated. Better luck next time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevefromSacto		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/06/21/new-state-recovery-still-iffy/#comment-1501</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevefromSacto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=5941#comment-1501</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Larry, that&#039;s the perfect definition of what George Skelton called &quot;pension envy&quot; (see above).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, that&#8217;s the perfect definition of what George Skelton called &#8220;pension envy&#8221; (see above).</p>
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