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	<title>
	Comments on: Locals Excluded From Klamath Dam Plan	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Dr. Richard Gierak		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3081</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Richard Gierak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 05:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3081</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hold degrees in Biology, Chemistry and a Doctorate in the Healing Arts and have lived on the Klamath River for 23 years. I have been a participant in FERC relicensing procedures and part of a Hatchery Evaluation Team in addition to a Fish Passage Advisory Team. Extensive research into the predominant cause for the decrease in Salmon from California to Washington is not due to dams or human activity but is as a result of historic rise in Pacific Ocean Temperature. For a complete viewing of this data from NOAA, NASA and NMFS it is presented in the following youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WffQhAOjVB8]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hold degrees in Biology, Chemistry and a Doctorate in the Healing Arts and have lived on the Klamath River for 23 years. I have been a participant in FERC relicensing procedures and part of a Hatchery Evaluation Team in addition to a Fish Passage Advisory Team. Extensive research into the predominant cause for the decrease in Salmon from California to Washington is not due to dams or human activity but is as a result of historic rise in Pacific Ocean Temperature. For a complete viewing of this data from NOAA, NASA and NMFS it is presented in the following youtube video.</p>
<p><iframe class="youtube-player" width="900" height="507" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WffQhAOjVB8?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent" allowfullscreen="true" style="border:0;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox"></iframe></p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne Lusvardi		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3080</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Lusvardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3080</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Harling:
My article was not obviously not an investigative report but an opinion-editorial (op-ed). The article was intended to be provocative.

As to the accusation by you and Bruce Ross that I have written &quot;baseless conspiracy mongering,&quot; I would refer you to the book The River Stops Here by Ted Simon (University of California Press, 1994).

From page 12: &quot;In the offices of the big construction companies and consulting firms were maps showing how all the rivers would be tamed. Where an atlas would show the Eel, the Klamath and the Trinity as a tracery of thin black lines meandering from the mountains to the ocean, the engineers&#039; maps showed them gorged and swollen like varicose veins by a multitude of dams and reservoirs, backed up to each other like steps in a staircase. The whole scheme, statewide, was to cost something like $12 billion.&quot;

The proposal to have the Klamath-Trinity Rivers flow to the California Delta is also mentioned in the book Cadillac Desert (citied in my article).

For further clarification, former Governor Reagan signed the &quot;Wild Rivers Bill&quot; in 1972, proposed by former Marin County Supervisor Peter Behr, for a &quot;wild and scenic rivers act&quot; to protect the Eel, Trinity and Klamath Rivers for at least 12 years.  Another parallel bill proposed by former state senator Randolph Collier called the &quot;Protected Waterways Act&quot; supported by water agencies was concurrently forwarded to Gov. Reagan for signing, but Reagan did not sign it.

This is not conspiracy mongering but history.

Not to argue with you but to dialog, if the proposal to rid the Klamath of dams was a mitigation project it would show up in an EIR somewhere as such.  I haven&#039;t been able to find evidence this is a mitigation project.

If it were an electricity related project to eliminate hydropower now that California is shifting to green power under Cal Assembly Bill 32, then the proponent for funding the dam removals would be an electric provider or the California Energy Commission not funded as part of a water bill supported by MWD, DWR.

If it isn&#039;t mitigation and it isn&#039;t energy related it must be a water project??  Do you have any further thoughts?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Harling:<br />
My article was not obviously not an investigative report but an opinion-editorial (op-ed). The article was intended to be provocative.</p>
<p>As to the accusation by you and Bruce Ross that I have written &#8220;baseless conspiracy mongering,&#8221; I would refer you to the book The River Stops Here by Ted Simon (University of California Press, 1994).</p>
<p>From page 12: &#8220;In the offices of the big construction companies and consulting firms were maps showing how all the rivers would be tamed. Where an atlas would show the Eel, the Klamath and the Trinity as a tracery of thin black lines meandering from the mountains to the ocean, the engineers&#8217; maps showed them gorged and swollen like varicose veins by a multitude of dams and reservoirs, backed up to each other like steps in a staircase. The whole scheme, statewide, was to cost something like $12 billion.&#8221;</p>
<p>The proposal to have the Klamath-Trinity Rivers flow to the California Delta is also mentioned in the book Cadillac Desert (citied in my article).</p>
<p>For further clarification, former Governor Reagan signed the &#8220;Wild Rivers Bill&#8221; in 1972, proposed by former Marin County Supervisor Peter Behr, for a &#8220;wild and scenic rivers act&#8221; to protect the Eel, Trinity and Klamath Rivers for at least 12 years.  Another parallel bill proposed by former state senator Randolph Collier called the &#8220;Protected Waterways Act&#8221; supported by water agencies was concurrently forwarded to Gov. Reagan for signing, but Reagan did not sign it.</p>
<p>This is not conspiracy mongering but history.</p>
<p>Not to argue with you but to dialog, if the proposal to rid the Klamath of dams was a mitigation project it would show up in an EIR somewhere as such.  I haven&#8217;t been able to find evidence this is a mitigation project.</p>
<p>If it were an electricity related project to eliminate hydropower now that California is shifting to green power under Cal Assembly Bill 32, then the proponent for funding the dam removals would be an electric provider or the California Energy Commission not funded as part of a water bill supported by MWD, DWR.</p>
<p>If it isn&#8217;t mitigation and it isn&#8217;t energy related it must be a water project??  Do you have any further thoughts?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Will Harling		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3079</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will Harling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3079</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was born and raised in Siskiyou County, and still live here. Happen to be among the minority of the county&#039;s residents that actually live on the Klamath River and believe a healthy fishery will produce more wealth than the dams here. It really pisses me off when everyone that relies on the fishery (guides, commercial fishermen, lodge owners, tribal families, tackle shops, etc) get thrown into your catch-all label, &quot;environmentalist&quot;, Mr. Lusvardi. Power from those dams creates wealth for PacifiCorp and a little tax revenue for Sisk Co on the side, but the salmon that have been steadily declining since they were built create wealth for working families from Fort Bragg on the coast all the way up to Iron Gate Dam. What about all the other locals that have been getting screwed ever since the dams went in?
On another note, my reading of the KBRA Section 20.5.4.C. on &quot;Out-of-Basin Water Transfers: The Parties (except state agencies with direct decisional authority over such transfers) shall make all reasonable efforts to oppose any additional out-of-basin water transfers from the Klamath River Basin&quot; leads me to question your conclusion that the purpose of this plan is to ship water South. But I see your brand of investigative reporting doesn&#039;t necessarily need to rely on what documents actually say, but on the predisposition of your readers. Clever, Mr. Lusvardi, clever.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was born and raised in Siskiyou County, and still live here. Happen to be among the minority of the county&#8217;s residents that actually live on the Klamath River and believe a healthy fishery will produce more wealth than the dams here. It really pisses me off when everyone that relies on the fishery (guides, commercial fishermen, lodge owners, tribal families, tackle shops, etc) get thrown into your catch-all label, &#8220;environmentalist&#8221;, Mr. Lusvardi. Power from those dams creates wealth for PacifiCorp and a little tax revenue for Sisk Co on the side, but the salmon that have been steadily declining since they were built create wealth for working families from Fort Bragg on the coast all the way up to Iron Gate Dam. What about all the other locals that have been getting screwed ever since the dams went in?<br />
On another note, my reading of the KBRA Section 20.5.4.C. on &#8220;Out-of-Basin Water Transfers: The Parties (except state agencies with direct decisional authority over such transfers) shall make all reasonable efforts to oppose any additional out-of-basin water transfers from the Klamath River Basin&#8221; leads me to question your conclusion that the purpose of this plan is to ship water South. But I see your brand of investigative reporting doesn&#8217;t necessarily need to rely on what documents actually say, but on the predisposition of your readers. Clever, Mr. Lusvardi, clever.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce Ross		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3078</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3078</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ms. Gribble,

My understanding is the water bond includes $250 million -- not $1 billion -- to pay California&#039;s share of the dam-removal costs.  And Iron Gate and the Copcos are in Siskiyou County, which is in California geographically -- if not always in spirit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Gribble,</p>
<p>My understanding is the water bond includes $250 million &#8212; not $1 billion &#8212; to pay California&#8217;s share of the dam-removal costs.  And Iron Gate and the Copcos are in Siskiyou County, which is in California geographically &#8212; if not always in spirit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce Ross		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3077</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3077</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Lusvardi,

Sure, Reclamation sketched a plan. Reclamation also sketched a plan to turn the Trinity River into a series of lakes and pump the water back up them.  Heck, Reclamation sketched a plan to dam the Grand Canyon.

But Floyd Dominy is dead, and the dam-building heyday of the mid-20th century preceded all manner of laws -- the Endangered Species Act, the Clean Water Act, NEPA, etc. -- that make big dams and diversions all but impossible to build.  There&#039;s a reason we California hasn&#039;t built a major new reservoir in a generation, and there&#039;s a reason why even relatively modest, relatively environmentally benign projects like adding a few feet to Shasta Dam or building Sites Reservoir up in the Coast Range take decades to complete (if indeed they ever come to fruition).

I&#039;m a skeptic of removing the Klamath dams.  I like hydropower.  I don&#039;t think &quot;re-wilding&quot; California&#039;s far north (the tacit goal of some enviro groups) is feasible or desirable. And state and federal officials should treat local needs and concerns more seriously.

But nobody will be diverting the Klamath&#039;s water to Los Angeles.  Not in this century.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Lusvardi,</p>
<p>Sure, Reclamation sketched a plan. Reclamation also sketched a plan to turn the Trinity River into a series of lakes and pump the water back up them.  Heck, Reclamation sketched a plan to dam the Grand Canyon.</p>
<p>But Floyd Dominy is dead, and the dam-building heyday of the mid-20th century preceded all manner of laws &#8212; the Endangered Species Act, the Clean Water Act, NEPA, etc. &#8212; that make big dams and diversions all but impossible to build.  There&#8217;s a reason we California hasn&#8217;t built a major new reservoir in a generation, and there&#8217;s a reason why even relatively modest, relatively environmentally benign projects like adding a few feet to Shasta Dam or building Sites Reservoir up in the Coast Range take decades to complete (if indeed they ever come to fruition).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a skeptic of removing the Klamath dams.  I like hydropower.  I don&#8217;t think &#8220;re-wilding&#8221; California&#8217;s far north (the tacit goal of some enviro groups) is feasible or desirable. And state and federal officials should treat local needs and concerns more seriously.</p>
<p>But nobody will be diverting the Klamath&#8217;s water to Los Angeles.  Not in this century.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mary Gribble		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3076</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Gribble]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3076</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It would take a fool to believe that removing dams on the Klamath River will not result in more water flowing to California via the Klamath and Trinity Rivers.  Why else would California float a huge $11 billion water bond, $1 billion of which is to go to dam removals in Oregon?  And isn&#039;t the main backer of this bond the Metro Water Department of Southern California?


The only other explanation I can come up with is that California wants to phase out cheap hydropower from Oregon so that California&#039;s Green Power has no competition.  The proverb that water runs uphill toward money would apply in this case.


There are many better and cheaper solutions for fish than removing dams along the Klamath River.  Bruce Ross&#039;s accusation that those in Siskiyou County that question whether fish are really the reason for dam removals are some kind of conspiracy nuts insults those who read his newspaper.  With all due respects to Mr. Ross, his argument &quot;smelts&quot; when it comes to this issue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would take a fool to believe that removing dams on the Klamath River will not result in more water flowing to California via the Klamath and Trinity Rivers.  Why else would California float a huge $11 billion water bond, $1 billion of which is to go to dam removals in Oregon?  And isn&#8217;t the main backer of this bond the Metro Water Department of Southern California?</p>
<p>The only other explanation I can come up with is that California wants to phase out cheap hydropower from Oregon so that California&#8217;s Green Power has no competition.  The proverb that water runs uphill toward money would apply in this case.</p>
<p>There are many better and cheaper solutions for fish than removing dams along the Klamath River.  Bruce Ross&#8217;s accusation that those in Siskiyou County that question whether fish are really the reason for dam removals are some kind of conspiracy nuts insults those who read his newspaper.  With all due respects to Mr. Ross, his argument &#8220;smelts&#8221; when it comes to this issue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Susan		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3075</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 05:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3075</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Ross apparently wants to divert our attention away from the possibility that the Klamath Basin Settlement Agreement is nothing more than the Klamath Diversion Project proposed in 1960 by the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation only couched in different terms.  He can smear those who bring this to our attention as &quot;conspiracy nuts&quot; but the fact is that if more water is diverted from Oregon to California what would you call it but a diversion project, not a fish habitat restoration project.  As they say in Oregon, if it quacks, waddles, and looks like a duck, it&#039;s a duck.  The proposed Klamath River Diversion Project is a historical fact not a conspiracy concocted by a journalist or group of citizens in Siskiyou County.   But we can thank Mr. Ross for drawing attention to an issue that is getting no attention in the media except at CalWatchDog.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Ross apparently wants to divert our attention away from the possibility that the Klamath Basin Settlement Agreement is nothing more than the Klamath Diversion Project proposed in 1960 by the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation only couched in different terms.  He can smear those who bring this to our attention as &#8220;conspiracy nuts&#8221; but the fact is that if more water is diverted from Oregon to California what would you call it but a diversion project, not a fish habitat restoration project.  As they say in Oregon, if it quacks, waddles, and looks like a duck, it&#8217;s a duck.  The proposed Klamath River Diversion Project is a historical fact not a conspiracy concocted by a journalist or group of citizens in Siskiyou County.   But we can thank Mr. Ross for drawing attention to an issue that is getting no attention in the media except at CalWatchDog.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barbara Decker		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barbara Decker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 01:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great article which I will add to my collection of information verifying the implementation of Agenda 21/sustainable development which puts all living creatures above humans, the bad guys!  This is one where the voters expressed their vote NO.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article which I will add to my collection of information verifying the implementation of Agenda 21/sustainable development which puts all living creatures above humans, the bad guys!  This is one where the voters expressed their vote NO.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne Lusvardi		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3073</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Lusvardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 01:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3073</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Reply to Bruce Ross
Re: &quot;I&#039;m surprised this otherwise reputable website would publish such baseless conspiracy-mongering.&quot;

Mr. Ross: Most respectfully, the Klamath Diversion Project is not a conspiracy but was a project once planned by the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation.  My source is Wikipedia - link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Diversion

Paranoia is an unrealistic fear. But there is no paranoia about the Klamath Dam Removal Project evolving into the formerly planned Klamath Diversion Project because there is a realistic basis to it.  That Siskiyou County residents fear that there may be a threat to their water and property rights is also based in potential reality.  If more water will flow through the Klamath then this may affect adjoining properties along the river (e.g., flooding, high and low flows, colder waters affecting fish, etc.).

Additionally, a portion of the proposed California Water Bond would partly fund the Klamath Dam Removal in the state of Oregon.  Surely, this must realistically raise concerns as to why California would want to fund dam removals in Oregon.

Thank you for your comments and criticism but I believe my statements are well supported and that Klamath County residents are not &quot;conspiracy nuts&quot; to suspect water is at issue here.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to Bruce Ross<br />
Re: &#8220;I&#8217;m surprised this otherwise reputable website would publish such baseless conspiracy-mongering.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mr. Ross: Most respectfully, the Klamath Diversion Project is not a conspiracy but was a project once planned by the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation.  My source is Wikipedia &#8211; link here: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Diversion" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Diversion</a></p>
<p>Paranoia is an unrealistic fear. But there is no paranoia about the Klamath Dam Removal Project evolving into the formerly planned Klamath Diversion Project because there is a realistic basis to it.  That Siskiyou County residents fear that there may be a threat to their water and property rights is also based in potential reality.  If more water will flow through the Klamath then this may affect adjoining properties along the river (e.g., flooding, high and low flows, colder waters affecting fish, etc.).</p>
<p>Additionally, a portion of the proposed California Water Bond would partly fund the Klamath Dam Removal in the state of Oregon.  Surely, this must realistically raise concerns as to why California would want to fund dam removals in Oregon.</p>
<p>Thank you for your comments and criticism but I believe my statements are well supported and that Klamath County residents are not &#8220;conspiracy nuts&#8221; to suspect water is at issue here.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce Ross		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2010/11/15/locals-excluded-from-klamath-dam-plan/#comment-3072</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 00:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=10888#comment-3072</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That the people of Siskiyou County have been rendered outside observers of a major potential change in their landscape is indisputable. That they prefer the dams to a wild river seems clear as can be from the vote.

But the notion that the KBRA is some kind of scheme to ship the Klamath&#039;s water to Los Angeles, as envisioned by 1950s Reclamation engineers, is preposterous nonsense. Such a project would cost billions, violate more federal environmental laws than I can count, and run counter the very clearly expressed goals of the KBRA.

I&#039;m surprised this otherwise reputable website would publish such baseless conspiracy-mongering.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That the people of Siskiyou County have been rendered outside observers of a major potential change in their landscape is indisputable. That they prefer the dams to a wild river seems clear as can be from the vote.</p>
<p>But the notion that the KBRA is some kind of scheme to ship the Klamath&#8217;s water to Los Angeles, as envisioned by 1950s Reclamation engineers, is preposterous nonsense. Such a project would cost billions, violate more federal environmental laws than I can count, and run counter the very clearly expressed goals of the KBRA.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised this otherwise reputable website would publish such baseless conspiracy-mongering.</p>
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