Oh and to clear this up; I don’t support abortion at all. I support saving as many lives as possible and if you can only save one then it is tragic that the other couldn’t be saved as well but at least the mother will live. I still think it was a baby regardless of the surcumstances. I say try to save them both and if you can’t then save who you can.

If you want to call it a draw I’ll buy in.

There are really no winners or losers on the abortion topic. Most of arguments on both sides make sense.

(1) “And if the majority decides that cannibalism is okay would you accept that too?” Yes, in a democracy I would. Much better to be eaten than to live under the totalitarian rule of a nation like North Korea. Nobody is forcing YOU to get an abortion, Corinna. And your comparison between cannibalism and 1st trimester abortion is all wet. More drama. But I don’t blame you. If I was arguing from your side of the aisle I would have to throw in drama and emotionalism too, regardless of the misapplication and erroneous analogies.

(2) An embryo without a heart or circulatory system is not a human. Ask any medical doctor without an agenda.

(3) “The life of the mother should always be put first. If you can’t save both lives then at least save hers”. Oh, so you are in favor of abortion with conditions attached. heh. I see. You are in favor of abotion. Now we are only bickering over the reasons. Thanks for clearing that up, dear. 😉

(4) So many contradictions. Where to start? I don’t believe in the word ‘soul’ because it has too many religious connotations. I believe that all living animals have some connection to the greater universe and that we don’t completely die after our passing on earth. Our spirit lives on. I refuse to call it ‘soul’ though since I was forced to regurgitate that term too many time in my childhood. I do my own thinking. I do not let others think for me.

On one hand you say: “I eat cows and pigs becasue they are delicious”. A couple sentences later you state: “I think animals can go to Heaven because they are creations of God”. So I can only deduce that you condone eating creations of God that are your spiritual equals? Wow. And you complain about woman terminating their pregnancies in the 1st trimester? At least the women do not take their fetuses home and eat them.

I think all of us will be totally surprised at our existence after death. I wouldn’t count too heavily on the concepts of ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ either. Those are likely human concepts to keep all of you good little boys and girls. The government likes to keep a hammer over your head. Even after we die. Think, Corinna.

(5) “Don’t condemn a person before they’ve had a chance to live and either be misserable or find happiness. And also, are you saying that it’s our insides that make us human? Is having a heart and veins what you define as a human?” No contradiction, Corinna. Life comes in stages. There is a pre-human stage too. That’s when embryos are generally terminated. At the pre-human stage. You seem to believe that an inseminated egg is a human. I disagree. You say ‘po-tat-o’. I say ‘po-taht-o’.

You have good points, Corinna. Many believe what you say. The nation is deeply divided on this issue and all have strong arguments. It is fun to debate but we would never come to a compromise or an agreement. I believe in ridding humanity of indocrinated guilt acquired at a young age – and I believe in preventing unwanted life (ie. products of abuse and drug-related deformaties) – who oftentimes live wretched, painful and miserable lives. Call me pragmatic. It should be the mother’s choice up to a certain stage of life.

2. Still sounds to me like you are defining humanity by an age. Being a certain age doesn’t make you more or less human. It just makes you a certain age.

3. I never said that so I’m not sure why you keep insisting that. If I ever said it I’d like a direct quote otherwise stop trying to interpret my words to mean what you want them to mean. If you are having such a hard time understanding this then let me break it down for you to comprehend. The life of the mother should always be put first. If you can’t save both lives then at least save hers. However, don’t sit there and act like it wasn’t a human being that just died because in the process. You should still acknowledge the child for what he is which is a human being.

4. If you don’t believe that humans have souls then what do you believe? You are making the argument that they don’t kill cows because they believe that cows are sacred. Well I don’t believe in killing children because I believe that human life is sacred from the moment of conception. And why do you assume that I just believe what I’m told? Could a person who does that really hold a resonable debate? Don’t assume I’m some drone who can’t think for myself just because I’m prolife. I eat cows and pigs becasue they are delicious. I don’t eat dog because I’ve never been introduced to the meat before and it just seems gross at this point. Dogs are not superior to pigs or cows. They are all animals who serve a different purpose. They may even taste delicious. Who knows? I think animals can go to Heaven because they are creations of God. I highly doubt that Heaven is some sort of an empty void filled with nothing but souls. However, if they don’t go anywhere when they die and that’s where you want to end up then have fun explaining that to God when you die. That’s your issue, buddy.

5. You say don’t praise someone who hasn’t done good yet. I agree with that but you kind of just contradicted yourself. Shouldn’t the reverse also be true. Don’t condemn a person before they’ve had a chance to live and either be misserable or find happiness. And also, are you saying that it’s our insides that make us human? Is having a heart and veins what you define as a human? In that case, wouldn’t any animal be considered a human? Well, I guess that might make sense now that I look back and read your point 4 again. I don’t really know anything about slaughter houses but as long as it puts a delicious meat product on my table and no humans were harmed or killed in the process then I really don’t care.

2. Still sounds to me like you are defining humanity by an age. Being a certain age doesn’t make you more or less human. It just makes you a certain age.

3. I never said that so I’m not sure why you keep insisting that. If I ever said it I’d like a direct quote otherwise stop trying to interpret my words to mean what you want them to mean. If you are having such a hard time understanding this then let me break it down for you to comprehend. The life of the mother should always be put first. If you can’t save both lives then at least save hers. However, don’t sit there and act like it wasn’t a human being that just died because it is. Acknowledge the child for what he was which is a human being

4. If

(1) “You have you’re own definition of human life but other people define humans differently. Who’s definition do we go by?” ANSWER: The Majority! That’s why we call it a ‘democracy’, Corinna. North Korea probably forbids abortion. Interested?

(2) “You keep saying a viable human being? What is that? Are you saying that they are less human than we are?”. Of course they are less than human. They haven’t even formed hearts or a circulatory system yet. That would be like me walking into the social security admin office at age 25, claiming I am 65 and demanding social security benefits and medicare. The Pinkerton guard would grab me by the shirt collar and heave me out the door. A 2 year old is a fully formed human being who has exited the womb, Corinna. Anybody who would advocate aborting a 2-year old is promoting murder. Get your definitions straight.

(3) The question is ‘Should the doctors abort the baby to save the mother’s life?’ I believe the answer is always YES. You seem to be in favor of letting the mother die to save the baby. I disagree. I believe the mother should always be given priority. Answer the question, Corinna. Don’t waffle.

(4) Cows are held sacred in the Hindu religion. It’s my understanding that the Hindu’s believe that cows are spiritual equals to humans. James Brown had lots of ‘soul’ too. I was always confused by the word ‘soul’. Do you believe everyting you’re told? If dogs can’t go to heaven then when I die I want to go where they do. Collectively speaking, I have much more respect for dogs than I do for the majority of humans. Do you eat dogs, Corinna? Do you eat cows and pigs? Why would you eat 2 of the 3 and leave the other alone? Because dogs are superior to pigs and cows? Think.

(5) Once an embryo starts to form the heart and the cirulatory system I say hands off. But the mother always gets priority if a decision must be made to save one and not the other. Someday I might find a cure to cancer. But until I do I don’t expect you to admire me for it. That would be sort of silly, wouldn’t it? Do you believe is livestock slaughter houses, Corinna? Just curious.

Thank you for your lively debate. You make some good points while at the same time you miss the mark by a country mile.

Hope I don’t scare you away.

2. You keep saying a viable human being? What is that? Are you saying that they are less human than we are? That’s the same argument that the people who advocate for the abortion of 2 year olds make. The only difference between you and them is the cut-off age you believe to be acceptable. A raped girl is innocent. So is the child. If she kills that kid then she has now commited murder for her own convenience. This hasn’t fixed anything. It has only made her the mother of a dead child.

3. I never said kill the mother? I said they should still recognize the baby as a baby. Sometimes there are more than one life at stake and you need to save as many as you can. That may mean that you can only save one person. Such was the case with Karen Santorum. She tried to hold on as long as she could but it got to the point where she was on her death bed and they needed to remove the baby and the baby died. I don’t believe they intentionally killed the baby. They saved the mother and tragically the baby couldn’t be saved as well.

4. And the Hindus don’t eat cows because they believe that the cows have souls. I believe that a child has a soul from the moment of conception. Not the magical 3 month mark or 90th day mark or whatever you seem to be going on about. They have souls from the moment of conception and therefore have a right not to be murdered.

5. So a baby who is born premature and has to be on life support until they are big enough is still not a human being? They look pretty human to me. Was the Duggers last baby not a human because she was born 4 months early and couldn’t survive on her own yet. After a few weeks out of the womb (long before she was due) she was showing emotions like a regular baby. And a baby’s heart beats about 10 days after conception just so you know. Not all babys can survive without their mothers outside the womb like others can. I had a cousin who was born a month premature and couldn’t survive on his own. He was in worse shape than other babies who are born before that and he ended up dying after 2 weeks. Does the moment when a person becomes a human being vary from person to person? Help me out here. And again with the finances, you are saying abort based on speculation. That child may end up being misserable and they may take that with them into adulthood. Or they may find a way out and make their own happiness or change the life of someone else. You don’t know what the future holds for them so how can you say that the babies of poor people or bad families should be aborted? Don’t they deserve a chance to find their own happiness?

(1) Strike this one, Corinna. Your point here is ridiculous. Nobody is going to murder a 2 year old child and call it an abortion. You are dramatizing, not debating. Stay on track.

(2) It’s not fair to the daughter who was raped by her father and impregnated to carry to term. That could be described as human psychological torture. Torture in America is not legal. In the first trimester when the fetus is not a viable human being – the daughter should be able to abort – as she could today under our current laws. You claim that an embryo is a human being. I say it’s not. You want to give an embryo more rights that a grown, living, breathing human being. I don’t. That’s where we differ. And there can be no compromise.

(3) So you would want to kill the mother – who may have OTHER children that she’s responsible for so that BOTH mother and the embryo or fetus would perish? That is very, very cruel, Corinna. Have you no heart? Think of the mother’s other children who would be forced to live without her due to your crazy and irrational rules. Sorry, you make no sense to me here.

(4) How do you know that cows have no souls? Because you read it in a book? The Hindus happen to think that cows have souls. What makes you think you are right and they are wrong? Animals are creations of God too. Why would you eat them? Do you have that right because you think you are a superior being? How would you like it if a higher superior being came to earth from outer space and wanted to eat you for dinner? Would you approve? Please put yourself in the cow’s hoofs for a second here.

(5) Human life begins when the being inside the mother is viable, has a heartbeat, and would be able to survive without the mother outside the womb. To me it has nothing to do directly with finances. Life is long. 70 years or more. If a child is unwanted by the mother or both parents there is a high, high possiblility that the child will live a miserable and unhappy life. So before it becomes a viable human and has to deal with that situation – the mother should have the right to terminate. We must be practical here. I do not buy your ‘financial’ argument. It makes no sense.

Thanks again, Corinna. I am not saying that you are wrong. We just think differently on this topic. It is controverial and brings out emotions. I only ask you to use your reason and be practical. Let go of all the garbage that you were indoctrinated with as a kid. Enjoy your evening. Good night.