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	Comments on: The Math Scam	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Art S		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-150558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2021 21:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-150558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Our public education is stupid! I was a student who graduated high school and college. I was misled! I got a B in Precalculus. However in college they don&#039;t admit that grade to get to Calculus! You either need to retake the class or take a math exit exam! Retaking the class did nothing! It&#039;s just the same stuff my high school teacher taught!  And when I took the exit exam, it&#039;s obvious there were some problems that were impossible to do even with what my teacher had taught. I had to go and read a Precalculus textbook front to cover, annotate, derive trig functions and other stuff, and even a supplementary workbook! Fact is either our high school math system and the college math system is stupid! I get how colleges require students to pass a rigorous, difficult exam to get into Calculus.  However, high schools should not fool students to believing they passed &quot;Precalculus.&quot; They should get students to read through the textbooks, annotate, figure why that trig function is derived that way, not be spoon fed a lecture and do the minimum to pass the class.

Fact is our education system is broken. We need to fix it but they won&#039;t do anything because all they care is keeping their job, get the kids pass a class according to &quot;their standard&quot; and not think about the kids that pursue a college education. They only pretend to do so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our public education is stupid! I was a student who graduated high school and college. I was misled! I got a B in Precalculus. However in college they don&#8217;t admit that grade to get to Calculus! You either need to retake the class or take a math exit exam! Retaking the class did nothing! It&#8217;s just the same stuff my high school teacher taught!  And when I took the exit exam, it&#8217;s obvious there were some problems that were impossible to do even with what my teacher had taught. I had to go and read a Precalculus textbook front to cover, annotate, derive trig functions and other stuff, and even a supplementary workbook! Fact is either our high school math system and the college math system is stupid! I get how colleges require students to pass a rigorous, difficult exam to get into Calculus.  However, high schools should not fool students to believing they passed &#8220;Precalculus.&#8221; They should get students to read through the textbooks, annotate, figure why that trig function is derived that way, not be spoon fed a lecture and do the minimum to pass the class.</p>
<p>Fact is our education system is broken. We need to fix it but they won&#8217;t do anything because all they care is keeping their job, get the kids pass a class according to &#8220;their standard&#8221; and not think about the kids that pursue a college education. They only pretend to do so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: taeto		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-143127</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[taeto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2018 15:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-143127</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The trigonometry example is just basic school stuff. In the sense that being familiar with mathematical objects like the unit circle and trigonometric functions are necessary in practically all scientific fields, certainly in mathematics, physics, chemistry and engineering, and you will encounter these things in your studies even if you go for degree in computer science, biology or medicine, which are build on top of the basic sciences.
So your comments make me think about other school subjects. Like, I am a professional mathematician now, as it happens. Yet in school I had to learn about christianity and religion, which I do not seem to need now, and about history and ancient arts, which I do not have much use for either. I took Latin, probably you would say there is not much need for that either in science, but actually it helps quite a lot to have a good grasp of the grammar. 
The point is that seeing a multitude of different subjects already during school years, it gave me the choice about pursuing one that I had a good feeling about. Like, I might have been inspired by the classes on religion to become a cleric. The fact that it didn&#039;t happen does not immediately suggest to me that all education on religious issues are suspect in some way. 
Anyway, you argue from ignorance, and you appear to have a clear anti-scientific agenda, so I am sure you will dismiss my thinking off-hand.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trigonometry example is just basic school stuff. In the sense that being familiar with mathematical objects like the unit circle and trigonometric functions are necessary in practically all scientific fields, certainly in mathematics, physics, chemistry and engineering, and you will encounter these things in your studies even if you go for degree in computer science, biology or medicine, which are build on top of the basic sciences.<br />
So your comments make me think about other school subjects. Like, I am a professional mathematician now, as it happens. Yet in school I had to learn about christianity and religion, which I do not seem to need now, and about history and ancient arts, which I do not have much use for either. I took Latin, probably you would say there is not much need for that either in science, but actually it helps quite a lot to have a good grasp of the grammar.<br />
The point is that seeing a multitude of different subjects already during school years, it gave me the choice about pursuing one that I had a good feeling about. Like, I might have been inspired by the classes on religion to become a cleric. The fact that it didn&#8217;t happen does not immediately suggest to me that all education on religious issues are suspect in some way.<br />
Anyway, you argue from ignorance, and you appear to have a clear anti-scientific agenda, so I am sure you will dismiss my thinking off-hand.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-40320</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 14:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-40320</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have a degree in electrical engineering.  I had a lot of math in college and have used very little of it in my career.  I know a few engineers who work for NASA or in very specialized fields who do use calculus and other forms of higher math often in their work.  But those people are a small minority.

Even though I don&#039;t use much of what I learned in school directly, I often realize that I am able to understand the details and boundaries of a problem I am attempting to solve because my knowledge has both depth and breadth.  

The last phrase in your article tells us why things are the way they are, &quot;but he or she is still required to learn higher math as a way of demonstrating an intelligence sufficient to remove an appendix&quot;.  That is true for my field.  People who hire engineers from an accredited school can feel safe in the knowledge that they are hiring someone who is intelligent enough to learn difficult subjects and put forth the work it took to pass those courses.  Is that a good way to judge the qualities that make a good engineer?  Maybe not, but any alternative I can think of poses other problems or is just practically unworkable.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a degree in electrical engineering.  I had a lot of math in college and have used very little of it in my career.  I know a few engineers who work for NASA or in very specialized fields who do use calculus and other forms of higher math often in their work.  But those people are a small minority.</p>
<p>Even though I don&#8217;t use much of what I learned in school directly, I often realize that I am able to understand the details and boundaries of a problem I am attempting to solve because my knowledge has both depth and breadth.  </p>
<p>The last phrase in your article tells us why things are the way they are, &#8220;but he or she is still required to learn higher math as a way of demonstrating an intelligence sufficient to remove an appendix&#8221;.  That is true for my field.  People who hire engineers from an accredited school can feel safe in the knowledge that they are hiring someone who is intelligent enough to learn difficult subjects and put forth the work it took to pass those courses.  Is that a good way to judge the qualities that make a good engineer?  Maybe not, but any alternative I can think of poses other problems or is just practically unworkable.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rex the Wonder Dog!		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20634</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex the Wonder Dog!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20634</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just love people who openly trumpet their ignorance (in this case, that math is needed by everyone) as if it is a virtue. geoih , did you go to public schools? Do yo have ANY common sense?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just love people who openly trumpet their ignorance (in this case, that math is needed by everyone) as if it is a virtue. geoih , did you go to public schools? Do yo have ANY common sense?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rex the Wonder Dog!		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20633</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex the Wonder Dog!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20633</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Math-the most OVER RATED subject in the history of the world-99% of it USELESS in everyday life-unless you&#039;re an engineer or rocket scientist.

Anyone who says everyone needs the garbage that is cited in this article is a fool.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Math-the most OVER RATED subject in the history of the world-99% of it USELESS in everyday life-unless you&#8217;re an engineer or rocket scientist.</p>
<p>Anyone who says everyone needs the garbage that is cited in this article is a fool.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Guy Gold		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20632</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guy Gold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20632</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Paul Simon &quot;When I Look Back On All The Crap I Learned in High School-It&#039;s a Wonder I Can Think at All.&quot;  In an editorial I wrote and sold to Yahoo for publication I noted that when 60% of Massachusetts college graduates failed a high school curriculum test as the last step to credentialing-it proves most of what you learn is useless and quickly forgotten (an astute viewpoint made in this editorial too):

http://voices.yahoo.com/government-credentialing-gone-wild-unnecessary-degree-11486786.html?cat=9]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Simon &#8220;When I Look Back On All The Crap I Learned in High School-It&#8217;s a Wonder I Can Think at All.&#8221;  In an editorial I wrote and sold to Yahoo for publication I noted that when 60% of Massachusetts college graduates failed a high school curriculum test as the last step to credentialing-it proves most of what you learn is useless and quickly forgotten (an astute viewpoint made in this editorial too):</p>
<p><a href="http://voices.yahoo.com/government-credentialing-gone-wild-unnecessary-degree-11486786.html?cat=9" rel="nofollow ugc">http://voices.yahoo.com/government-credentialing-gone-wild-unnecessary-degree-11486786.html?cat=9</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: geoih		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20631</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[geoih]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20631</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just love people who openly trumpet their ignorance (in this case, of mathematics) as if it is a virtue. Stan, did you go to public schools?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just love people who openly trumpet their ignorance (in this case, of mathematics) as if it is a virtue. Stan, did you go to public schools?</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Illinois		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20630</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Illinois]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20630</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think math much past addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, including fractions, percents, decimals, a little geometry, (so you know how to figure out how to make your building square), enough algebra so you understand simple formulas like for the area of a square and cube (so you can order concrete), a little trig so you can measure the height of something without having to actually apply a tape  is about all that is necessary  for 95% of people.  I do have an engineering degree. I have never worked in the field--sheetmetal bending and forming. I was able to manipulate the numbers to come up with the answer in calculus class, but never thought I truly understood it. I went to Navy Nuclear Power School. They started out at 2+2=4, and proceeded through differential Calculus in 3 months--and I actually understood it then.  I have not used it in the succeeding 50 years. I think I&#039;d be hard pressed to make it work, now. Actually, most of the normal world use of trig is just algebra. Algebra is pretty much adding, subtracting, Multiplying, Dividing, but the operations are combined, and you have to figure out what numbers to substitute for the letters.
    I think the biggest problem with much of math instruction is that the teachers wants to impress the student with how much they know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think math much past addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, including fractions, percents, decimals, a little geometry, (so you know how to figure out how to make your building square), enough algebra so you understand simple formulas like for the area of a square and cube (so you can order concrete), a little trig so you can measure the height of something without having to actually apply a tape  is about all that is necessary  for 95% of people.  I do have an engineering degree. I have never worked in the field&#8211;sheetmetal bending and forming. I was able to manipulate the numbers to come up with the answer in calculus class, but never thought I truly understood it. I went to Navy Nuclear Power School. They started out at 2+2=4, and proceeded through differential Calculus in 3 months&#8211;and I actually understood it then.  I have not used it in the succeeding 50 years. I think I&#8217;d be hard pressed to make it work, now. Actually, most of the normal world use of trig is just algebra. Algebra is pretty much adding, subtracting, Multiplying, Dividing, but the operations are combined, and you have to figure out what numbers to substitute for the letters.<br />
    I think the biggest problem with much of math instruction is that the teachers wants to impress the student with how much they know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rick		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Multiculturalism is a great stain upon college education. I had the misfortune of attenting a Diversity talk by the head of the department of African-American studies, with over 20 years of experience. It wasn&#039;t simply the things he said that was frightening, but that in a room full of Ph.D.&#039;s, I was the only one willing to take him to task repeatedly:
 
“France and England didn’t have any wars in North America because when they got here, they united to keep the black man down.” At this point I interrupted him to mention how George Washington’s military career began in the British military, fighting the French, but he was impervious.“This was how they solved the problems of war, and managed to not bring the European wars to the New World.”
 
“The US Education system is the best in the world,” he proudly claimed. He backed this up by mentioning the 36,000 institutions we have. Naturally, I asked him if by “best” he meant “largest”, but nope, he honestly thought the US system is superior to the rest of the world.
 
He quoted someone as saying “Diversity without equity is meaningless”…and from this he concluded from this that the most important thing the US needs is “diversity at all levels”.
 
“Memphis, in North Africa, is the oldest city in the world,”he said…and my interrupting him again to mention that Sumeria predates Memphis by 1,000 years did no good. He followed up with “When Alexander the Great captured Memphis, he found the Great Library there, and took the knowledge back to Greece, to form the foundations of Western Civilization”.
 
Again, I called him on this, making certain that he really was claiming Alexander the Great captured Alexandria (a city Alexander the Great founded, and named after himself, being something of a megalomaniac). Yes, that’s what he meant, and he doubled down by saying Alexandria used to be called Memphis.
 
After he gave his “lesson” on history, he asked us “How many of you were familiar with this chronology?” I had to admit, I wasn’t, but I’m also not intimately familiar with other fictional timelines, like the Star Wars or Lord of the Rings histories, either.
 
He then finished up with “Hitler only persecuted the Jews because there were no black people in Germany”. By the end of his speech I was covering my mouth with both hands, and yes, I was sitting in the front row. Only a few of us bothered to speak up…I can’t help but be disappointed that he was even taken seriously in the slightest.

There is much, much, hatred of mathematics, but I honestly feel knew how much absolute garbage is in a college education nowadays, they&#039;d direct that hatred to the garbage, instead of math.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Multiculturalism is a great stain upon college education. I had the misfortune of attenting a Diversity talk by the head of the department of African-American studies, with over 20 years of experience. It wasn&#8217;t simply the things he said that was frightening, but that in a room full of Ph.D.&#8217;s, I was the only one willing to take him to task repeatedly:</p>
<p>“France and England didn’t have any wars in North America because when they got here, they united to keep the black man down.” At this point I interrupted him to mention how George Washington’s military career began in the British military, fighting the French, but he was impervious.“This was how they solved the problems of war, and managed to not bring the European wars to the New World.”</p>
<p>“The US Education system is the best in the world,” he proudly claimed. He backed this up by mentioning the 36,000 institutions we have. Naturally, I asked him if by “best” he meant “largest”, but nope, he honestly thought the US system is superior to the rest of the world.</p>
<p>He quoted someone as saying “Diversity without equity is meaningless”…and from this he concluded from this that the most important thing the US needs is “diversity at all levels”.</p>
<p>“Memphis, in North Africa, is the oldest city in the world,”he said…and my interrupting him again to mention that Sumeria predates Memphis by 1,000 years did no good. He followed up with “When Alexander the Great captured Memphis, he found the Great Library there, and took the knowledge back to Greece, to form the foundations of Western Civilization”.</p>
<p>Again, I called him on this, making certain that he really was claiming Alexander the Great captured Alexandria (a city Alexander the Great founded, and named after himself, being something of a megalomaniac). Yes, that’s what he meant, and he doubled down by saying Alexandria used to be called Memphis.</p>
<p>After he gave his “lesson” on history, he asked us “How many of you were familiar with this chronology?” I had to admit, I wasn’t, but I’m also not intimately familiar with other fictional timelines, like the Star Wars or Lord of the Rings histories, either.</p>
<p>He then finished up with “Hitler only persecuted the Jews because there were no black people in Germany”. By the end of his speech I was covering my mouth with both hands, and yes, I was sitting in the front row. Only a few of us bothered to speak up…I can’t help but be disappointed that he was even taken seriously in the slightest.</p>
<p>There is much, much, hatred of mathematics, but I honestly feel knew how much absolute garbage is in a college education nowadays, they&#8217;d direct that hatred to the garbage, instead of math.</p>
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		<title>
		By: K. Hamburger		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/06/26/the-math-scam/#comment-20628</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[K. Hamburger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=29952#comment-20628</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Did anyone challenge Loera to show any DiffEqu or Linear Algebra skills on the spot?  If he can&#039;t do it he is a typical government hypocrite.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone challenge Loera to show any DiffEqu or Linear Algebra skills on the spot?  If he can&#8217;t do it he is a typical government hypocrite.</p>
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