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	<title>
	Comments on: Brown, Legislature advance phony pension &#8216;reform&#8217;	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2012 23:37:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: SeeSaw		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23776</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SeeSaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2012 23:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23776</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[CalPERS COLA&#039;s are not automatic, TL.  It depends on what the CPI figures are; most retirees get 2% or less, or nothing.  I suggest you concentrate on what needs to be done in your state of NJ--I sure don&#039;t put my nose in the affairs of that state.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CalPERS COLA&#8217;s are not automatic, TL.  It depends on what the CPI figures are; most retirees get 2% or less, or nothing.  I suggest you concentrate on what needs to be done in your state of NJ&#8211;I sure don&#8217;t put my nose in the affairs of that state.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tough Love		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23775</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tough Love]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2012 23:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23775</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mikey.  Al doesn&#039;t give a crap ... just keeps harping on the &quot;contract&quot; issue trying to justify his (now GONE) COLA.  

Hey AL, answer this one directly ...

Why, when it is both legal to do so (and routinely done), is is OK to reduce FUTURE pensions accruals for CURRENT workers, but virtually all Public Sector Plan say you can&#039;t do this.  WHY are Public Sector deserving of a better deal than those that pay your way?

Do you see the connection ?  If Taxpayers&#039; hands where not tied and we COULD reduce future accruals for CURRENT workers, we wouldn&#039;t have to take away your COLA.

But then again, when virtually ZERO Private Sector Pension Plans include automatic annual COLA increases, WHY should Public Sector Plans ... on OUR DIME ?  Again, are you deserving of a better deal than those that pay your way?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mikey.  Al doesn&#8217;t give a crap &#8230; just keeps harping on the &#8220;contract&#8221; issue trying to justify his (now GONE) COLA.  </p>
<p>Hey AL, answer this one directly &#8230;</p>
<p>Why, when it is both legal to do so (and routinely done), is is OK to reduce FUTURE pensions accruals for CURRENT workers, but virtually all Public Sector Plan say you can&#8217;t do this.  WHY are Public Sector deserving of a better deal than those that pay your way?</p>
<p>Do you see the connection ?  If Taxpayers&#8217; hands where not tied and we COULD reduce future accruals for CURRENT workers, we wouldn&#8217;t have to take away your COLA.</p>
<p>But then again, when virtually ZERO Private Sector Pension Plans include automatic annual COLA increases, WHY should Public Sector Plans &#8230; on OUR DIME ?  Again, are you deserving of a better deal than those that pay your way?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mikey		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23774</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mikey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2012 01:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23774</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Al Moncrief,
   So let me get this straight: It&#039;s not okay for the goverment to steal from it&#039;s own employees, but it IS okay to steal more and more from the private sector employees?
    Now you overpaid gubmint retirees know how we feel all the time! I&#039;m still working my tail off at 55. I can&#039;t retire at 50 like you lazy gubmint folk can, I&#039;m in it for another decade at least. And even though I&#039;m working, I don&#039;t get many COLA&#039;s. I&#039;ve had two in the last 6 years. One for 3 cents an hour, and one for 24 cents an hour. This amounts to about 1% of my wages, and my actual cost of living has gone up by better than 10%. Why should any of us in the private sector pay you better than we get paid? 
    No wonder jobs are leaving California at such a rapid rate. I guess I should consider myself lucky to still be employed, (at least for the time being).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al Moncrief,<br />
   So let me get this straight: It&#8217;s not okay for the goverment to steal from it&#8217;s own employees, but it IS okay to steal more and more from the private sector employees?<br />
    Now you overpaid gubmint retirees know how we feel all the time! I&#8217;m still working my tail off at 55. I can&#8217;t retire at 50 like you lazy gubmint folk can, I&#8217;m in it for another decade at least. And even though I&#8217;m working, I don&#8217;t get many COLA&#8217;s. I&#8217;ve had two in the last 6 years. One for 3 cents an hour, and one for 24 cents an hour. This amounts to about 1% of my wages, and my actual cost of living has gone up by better than 10%. Why should any of us in the private sector pay you better than we get paid?<br />
    No wonder jobs are leaving California at such a rapid rate. I guess I should consider myself lucky to still be employed, (at least for the time being).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael G.		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23773</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23773</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Soquel&#039;s High Speed Rail videos (comment 19) are amazing.  Both Vranich&#039;s testimony (6 minute video) and Simitian&#039;s speech (17 minutes) are HSR advocates giving damning testimony as to how and why HSR failed in CA.  I am very glad I followed those links.  I&#039;m copying them here:

http://youtu.be/SS0RD6dqpKY

http://youtu.be/NajQSD_Pscs]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Soquel&#8217;s High Speed Rail videos (comment 19) are amazing.  Both Vranich&#8217;s testimony (6 minute video) and Simitian&#8217;s speech (17 minutes) are HSR advocates giving damning testimony as to how and why HSR failed in CA.  I am very glad I followed those links.  I&#8217;m copying them here:</p>
<p><a href="http://youtu.be/SS0RD6dqpKY" rel="nofollow ugc">http://youtu.be/SS0RD6dqpKY</a></p>
<p><a href="http://youtu.be/NajQSD_Pscs" rel="nofollow ugc">http://youtu.be/NajQSD_Pscs</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: eatingdogfood		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23772</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eatingdogfood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23772</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You really didn&#039;t think that Gov. Moonbeam and his Double Dealing Democratic Cohorts would Stab their Union Bosses in the Back, Did Ya ??? Only one way out of this !!! Declare Martial Law and Nationalize the National Guard and Arrest All the Democrats and Union Bosses on RICO Conspiracy Charges !!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really didn&#8217;t think that Gov. Moonbeam and his Double Dealing Democratic Cohorts would Stab their Union Bosses in the Back, Did Ya ??? Only one way out of this !!! Declare Martial Law and Nationalize the National Guard and Arrest All the Democrats and Union Bosses on RICO Conspiracy Charges !!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Al Moncrief		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23771</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Al Moncrief]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23771</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[WHY ARE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS NOT SUPPORTING THE BREACH OF THEIR RETIRED MEMBER&#039;S PENSION CONTRACTS LIKE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS IN COLORADO?  (THE GREATEST ACT OF TREACHERY IN THE HISTORY OF THE U.S. UNION MOVEMENT.)

PROOF THAT COLORADO’S GOVERNMENT LIES: COLORADO PERA’S ATTEMPT TO TAKE CONTRACTED RETIREE BENEFITS.

When I was young I held the belief that public service in the United States is honorable, that the United States of America was exceptional in the world, that governments in the United States, while flawed, deserved the respect of citizens. 

Now that I am old, I see that I was naive . . . that governmental entities in the United States will intentionally deceive to achieve their goals, and that over two centuries our soldiers have died for a country that will countenance, and even celebrate, base behavior on the part of its public sector instrumentalities.  It saddens me, but if this state of affairs persists in the United States . . . Honor is dead.

Some background . . . 

You may know that an entity of Colorado state government, Colorado PERA, is attempting to breach its public pension contracts with its retirees.  Colorado PERA is attempting a retroactive taking, a “clawback” of accrued, fully-vested pension benefits that were earned by retired PERA members over decades.

Colorado PERA public pension benefits include a “base benefit” that is set at retirement and a “COLA benefit” that adjusts pensions annually to compensate for inflation.  The “base benefit” and the “COLA benefit” are set forth in Colorado statutes with identical force of law and legal status.

In its attempt to breach retiree contracts Colorado PERA has created a contrivance.  The contrivance that Colorado PERA is using is that somehow the “base benefit” is a contractual obligation, but the “COLA benefit” is not a contractual obligation, in spite of the fact that both pension benefits are set forth in law in an identical manner.  What this boils down to is attempted, unabashed, theft by government.

Whether or not Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested public pension benefits from PERA retirees is ultimately successful in the courts, one fact has been incontrovertibly established . . . Colorado PERA, as an instrumentality of the State of Colorado, is an organization that will lie to achieve its policy goals. 

This is a sad fact for the many employees of Colorado PERA, for the trustees that have served on the Colorado PERA Board of Trustees over 80 years, and for the thousands of PERA members and retirees. 
And now, the proof of the deceit . . .

Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA . . . and then, after initiating their attempt to breach contracts, Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA.  Both of these statements cannot be true.

Colorado PERA in a written document, to the Colorado General Assembly’s Joint Budget Committee on December 16, 2009 states that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA:

“The General Assembly cannot decrease the COLA (absent actuarial necessity) because it is part of the contractual obligations that accrue under a pension plan protected under the Colorado Constitution Article II, Section 11 and the United States Constitution Article 1, Section 10 for vested contractual rights.” 

Link:

http://www.kentlambert.com/Files/PERA_JBC_Hearing_Responses-12-16-2009_Final.pdf

Colorado PERA on page 23 of its May 6, 2011 “Reply Brief” in the pension case Justus v. State states that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA:

“Plaintiffs seek to create a contract right that has never existed—an unchangeable COLA for life triggered (inconsistently) by either the date of their retirement or ‘full vesting.’”

Link:

http://saveperacola.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/2011-05-06-pera-defendants_-reply-in-support-of-summary-judgment.pdf

That is simply unbelievable.

In one document PERA writes &quot;the contract right has never existed.&quot;  In the other they write that the COLA benefit is a contractual obligation protected under the Colorado and US constitutions. 

When PERA writes that they need &quot;actuarial necessity&quot; to take the COLA benefit, they are not denying that it is a contractual obligation, in fact, it is an admission of the contractual nature of the COLA benefit. 

For further information regarding Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested pension benefits from retirees visit saveperacola.com or Friend Save Pera Cola on Facebook.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHY ARE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS NOT SUPPORTING THE BREACH OF THEIR RETIRED MEMBER&#8217;S PENSION CONTRACTS LIKE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS IN COLORADO?  (THE GREATEST ACT OF TREACHERY IN THE HISTORY OF THE U.S. UNION MOVEMENT.)</p>
<p>PROOF THAT COLORADO’S GOVERNMENT LIES: COLORADO PERA’S ATTEMPT TO TAKE CONTRACTED RETIREE BENEFITS.</p>
<p>When I was young I held the belief that public service in the United States is honorable, that the United States of America was exceptional in the world, that governments in the United States, while flawed, deserved the respect of citizens. </p>
<p>Now that I am old, I see that I was naive . . . that governmental entities in the United States will intentionally deceive to achieve their goals, and that over two centuries our soldiers have died for a country that will countenance, and even celebrate, base behavior on the part of its public sector instrumentalities.  It saddens me, but if this state of affairs persists in the United States . . . Honor is dead.</p>
<p>Some background . . . </p>
<p>You may know that an entity of Colorado state government, Colorado PERA, is attempting to breach its public pension contracts with its retirees.  Colorado PERA is attempting a retroactive taking, a “clawback” of accrued, fully-vested pension benefits that were earned by retired PERA members over decades.</p>
<p>Colorado PERA public pension benefits include a “base benefit” that is set at retirement and a “COLA benefit” that adjusts pensions annually to compensate for inflation.  The “base benefit” and the “COLA benefit” are set forth in Colorado statutes with identical force of law and legal status.</p>
<p>In its attempt to breach retiree contracts Colorado PERA has created a contrivance.  The contrivance that Colorado PERA is using is that somehow the “base benefit” is a contractual obligation, but the “COLA benefit” is not a contractual obligation, in spite of the fact that both pension benefits are set forth in law in an identical manner.  What this boils down to is attempted, unabashed, theft by government.</p>
<p>Whether or not Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested public pension benefits from PERA retirees is ultimately successful in the courts, one fact has been incontrovertibly established . . . Colorado PERA, as an instrumentality of the State of Colorado, is an organization that will lie to achieve its policy goals. </p>
<p>This is a sad fact for the many employees of Colorado PERA, for the trustees that have served on the Colorado PERA Board of Trustees over 80 years, and for the thousands of PERA members and retirees.<br />
And now, the proof of the deceit . . .</p>
<p>Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA . . . and then, after initiating their attempt to breach contracts, Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA.  Both of these statements cannot be true.</p>
<p>Colorado PERA in a written document, to the Colorado General Assembly’s Joint Budget Committee on December 16, 2009 states that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA:</p>
<p>“The General Assembly cannot decrease the COLA (absent actuarial necessity) because it is part of the contractual obligations that accrue under a pension plan protected under the Colorado Constitution Article II, Section 11 and the United States Constitution Article 1, Section 10 for vested contractual rights.” </p>
<p>Link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kentlambert.com/Files/PERA_JBC_Hearing_Responses-12-16-2009_Final.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.kentlambert.com/Files/PERA_JBC_Hearing_Responses-12-16-2009_Final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Colorado PERA on page 23 of its May 6, 2011 “Reply Brief” in the pension case Justus v. State states that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA:</p>
<p>“Plaintiffs seek to create a contract right that has never existed—an unchangeable COLA for life triggered (inconsistently) by either the date of their retirement or ‘full vesting.’”</p>
<p>Link:</p>
<p><a href="http://saveperacola.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/2011-05-06-pera-defendants_-reply-in-support-of-summary-judgment.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://saveperacola.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/2011-05-06-pera-defendants_-reply-in-support-of-summary-judgment.pdf</a></p>
<p>That is simply unbelievable.</p>
<p>In one document PERA writes &#8220;the contract right has never existed.&#8221;  In the other they write that the COLA benefit is a contractual obligation protected under the Colorado and US constitutions. </p>
<p>When PERA writes that they need &#8220;actuarial necessity&#8221; to take the COLA benefit, they are not denying that it is a contractual obligation, in fact, it is an admission of the contractual nature of the COLA benefit. </p>
<p>For further information regarding Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested pension benefits from retirees visit saveperacola.com or Friend Save Pera Cola on Facebook.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rex the Wonder Dog!		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23770</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex the Wonder Dog!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23770</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LOL, I saw your same post in the LAT EDF! Funny :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, I saw your same post in the LAT EDF! Funny 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: eatingdogfood		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eatingdogfood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear Public Sector Employee or Retire : I would like to meet up with you for some Companionship and maybe even some Romance! I need a little Support at this time in my life cause I worked in the Private Sector for a Major Corporation for 45 Years and my Pension is frankly, Pathetic. I guess I&#039;m Lucky to even have a Pension as Pathetic as it is. And the Private Sector Pension that I have, has NO COLA Provisions. So the longer that I am retired, the Pension Check remains the Same. I don&#039;t have any Medical either, Except paying through the nose for Medicare. I know that you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector don&#039;t have those Problems. I helped you Guys and Girls out for 45 Years by again Paying through the Nose in Taxes which supported you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector so that you would be Comfortable. Even though I&#039;m in my 70&#039;s, I can still get it up, so don&#039;t worry about that. And if need be; there are always Chemicals to take care of that kind of Problem. Hoping to hear from you soon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Public Sector Employee or Retire : I would like to meet up with you for some Companionship and maybe even some Romance! I need a little Support at this time in my life cause I worked in the Private Sector for a Major Corporation for 45 Years and my Pension is frankly, Pathetic. I guess I&#8217;m Lucky to even have a Pension as Pathetic as it is. And the Private Sector Pension that I have, has NO COLA Provisions. So the longer that I am retired, the Pension Check remains the Same. I don&#8217;t have any Medical either, Except paying through the nose for Medicare. I know that you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector don&#8217;t have those Problems. I helped you Guys and Girls out for 45 Years by again Paying through the Nose in Taxes which supported you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector so that you would be Comfortable. Even though I&#8217;m in my 70&#8217;s, I can still get it up, so don&#8217;t worry about that. And if need be; there are always Chemicals to take care of that kind of Problem. Hoping to hear from you soon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tough Love		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23768</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tough Love]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23768</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quoting NYHEOC ...&quot; But hey, the more and more you people keep taking from me, the less and less I will risk for you!!&quot;

I&#039;d love to reduce your risk to zero ..... by having your (and all other Firefighter jobs) outsourced to the Private Sector.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting NYHEOC &#8230;&#8221; But hey, the more and more you people keep taking from me, the less and less I will risk for you!!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to reduce your risk to zero &#8230;.. by having your (and all other Firefighter jobs) outsourced to the Private Sector.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tough Love		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/29/joint-pension-reform-reduces-liability-4-cents-out-of-every-dollar-in-2030-maybe/#comment-23767</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tough Love]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31583#comment-23767</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What a joke.

The DB Plans need to be hard frozen (ZERO future growth) for CURRENT workers, and replaced with a DC Plan with a modest taxpayer &quot;match&quot; of 3% of pay (+ the 6.4% employer SS contribution if the worker is not in SS)... PERIOD.

THIS is the retirement package of almost all Private Sector workers and their is ZERO justification for Taxpayers paying for greater pensions and better benefits than what THEY get from their employers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a joke.</p>
<p>The DB Plans need to be hard frozen (ZERO future growth) for CURRENT workers, and replaced with a DC Plan with a modest taxpayer &#8220;match&#8221; of 3% of pay (+ the 6.4% employer SS contribution if the worker is not in SS)&#8230; PERIOD.</p>
<p>THIS is the retirement package of almost all Private Sector workers and their is ZERO justification for Taxpayers paying for greater pensions and better benefits than what THEY get from their employers.</p>
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