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	<title>
	Comments on: Gov. Brown&#8217;s pension non-reform	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
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	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 18:34:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: SeeSaw		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SeeSaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 18:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know Rex.  My public sector job paid $1.85/hr. to start, and I worked for 40 years till I was making $50,000. That was my world. I like my state. Perhaps you should move to a place you would like.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know Rex.  My public sector job paid $1.85/hr. to start, and I worked for 40 years till I was making $50,000. That was my world. I like my state. Perhaps you should move to a place you would like.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rex the Wonder Dog!		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rex the Wonder Dog!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 17:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;The taxes passed in 2009 were a matter of necessity, after the 2008 global financial collapse&lt;/b&gt;

The taxes passed were not out of necessity, they were for proping up multi million dollar pensions of GED and HS educated gov troughies. There was NO NEED to raise taxes when we could have cut the fraudulent pensions, and for that matter the excessive pay for the troughies. Where in the real world can you find $2350K jobs with a GED???

 Where in the real world can you even find a $25K job with a GED?? No where, that&#039;s where.

Seesaw, I love shooting down your whoppers, it &quot;makes my day&quot; :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>The taxes passed in 2009 were a matter of necessity, after the 2008 global financial collapse</b></p>
<p>The taxes passed were not out of necessity, they were for proping up multi million dollar pensions of GED and HS educated gov troughies. There was NO NEED to raise taxes when we could have cut the fraudulent pensions, and for that matter the excessive pay for the troughies. Where in the real world can you find $2350K jobs with a GED???</p>
<p> Where in the real world can you even find a $25K job with a GED?? No where, that&#8217;s where.</p>
<p>Seesaw, I love shooting down your whoppers, it &#8220;makes my day&#8221; 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: eatingdogfood		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eatingdogfood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 13:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You really didn&#039;t think that Gov. Moonbeam and his Double Dealing
Democratic Cohorts would Stab their Union Bosses in the Back, Did Ya ???
Only one way out of this !!! Declare Martial Law and Nationalize the
National Guard and Arrest All the Democrats and Union Bosses on RICO
Conspiracy Charges !!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really didn&#8217;t think that Gov. Moonbeam and his Double Dealing<br />
Democratic Cohorts would Stab their Union Bosses in the Back, Did Ya ???<br />
Only one way out of this !!! Declare Martial Law and Nationalize the<br />
National Guard and Arrest All the Democrats and Union Bosses on RICO<br />
Conspiracy Charges !!!</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: SeeSaw		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23865</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SeeSaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23865</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The taxes passed in 2009 were a matter of necessity, after the 2008 global financial collapse.  Whether any respective expenditure is going to be considered excessive, or not, is a matter of opinion.  Where there are almost 39 million citizens, costs to serve those citizens are going to increase, therefore making increased revenue necessary.  CA is not the highest in the nation for total taxation--it ranks somewhere in the teens.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The taxes passed in 2009 were a matter of necessity, after the 2008 global financial collapse.  Whether any respective expenditure is going to be considered excessive, or not, is a matter of opinion.  Where there are almost 39 million citizens, costs to serve those citizens are going to increase, therefore making increased revenue necessary.  CA is not the highest in the nation for total taxation&#8211;it ranks somewhere in the teens.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ulysses Uhaul		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23864</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ulysses Uhaul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23864</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not enough!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not enough!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Tough Love		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23863</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tough Love]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23863</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So Seesaw, you think the problem is a lack of reasonable tax revenue (when Ca&#039;s taxes are already the highest in the nation), not an excessive expenditure issue ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Seesaw, you think the problem is a lack of reasonable tax revenue (when Ca&#8217;s taxes are already the highest in the nation), not an excessive expenditure issue ?</p>
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		<title>
		By: SeeSaw		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23862</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SeeSaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23862</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The tax increases passed in 09, expired in 2011, and the Republicans stonewalled any efforts to let the voters decide if they wanted them to continue.  Could that by why the budget can&#039;t be balanced?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tax increases passed in 09, expired in 2011, and the Republicans stonewalled any efforts to let the voters decide if they wanted them to continue.  Could that by why the budget can&#8217;t be balanced?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hondo		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23861</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hondo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23861</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Like Pension Tsunami says, there won&#039;t really be any real dollar savings for 30 more years because most of these cuts are aimed a new employes, who won&#039;t retire for 30 or 40 more years.  Pension spiking will continue for 40 more years.  
The problem is that the wall of debt that Moonbeam talks about is coming due in 1 to 5 years.  Not 30 years.  The hockey stick graph climbs off the chart in 3 more years, not 30.  
This may get the tax increase passed but it won&#039;t matter (most voters in Kali collect taxes, ie welfare, rather than pay them).  Illinois passed a huge tax increase in 2011 and have huge budget deficits again this year.  And they blew off pension reform on the 17th.  Kali passed huge tax increases in 09 but still can&#039;t balance their budget.  
The Dems won&#039;t overturn this bill for it does nothing anyways, not for 30 more years anyways.
Hondo........]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Pension Tsunami says, there won&#8217;t really be any real dollar savings for 30 more years because most of these cuts are aimed a new employes, who won&#8217;t retire for 30 or 40 more years.  Pension spiking will continue for 40 more years.<br />
The problem is that the wall of debt that Moonbeam talks about is coming due in 1 to 5 years.  Not 30 years.  The hockey stick graph climbs off the chart in 3 more years, not 30.<br />
This may get the tax increase passed but it won&#8217;t matter (most voters in Kali collect taxes, ie welfare, rather than pay them).  Illinois passed a huge tax increase in 2011 and have huge budget deficits again this year.  And they blew off pension reform on the 17th.  Kali passed huge tax increases in 09 but still can&#8217;t balance their budget.<br />
The Dems won&#8217;t overturn this bill for it does nothing anyways, not for 30 more years anyways.<br />
Hondo&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Al Moncrief		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23860</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Al Moncrief]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23860</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[WHY ARE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS NOT SUPPORTING THE BREACH OF THEIR RETIRED MEMBER&#039;S PENSION CONTRACTS LIKE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS IN COLORADO? (THE GREATEST ACT OF TREACHERY IN THE HISTORY OF THE U.S. UNION MOVEMENT.)

PROOF THAT COLORADO’S GOVERNMENT LIES: COLORADO PERA’S ATTEMPT TO TAKE CONTRACTED RETIREE BENEFITS.

When I was young I held the belief that public service in the United States is honorable, that the United States of America was exceptional in the world, that governments in the United States, while flawed, deserved the respect of citizens. 

Now that I am old, I see that I was naive . . . that governmental entities in the United States will intentionally deceive to achieve their goals, and that over two centuries our soldiers have died for a country that will countenance, and even celebrate, base behavior o...n the part of its public sector instrumentalities. It saddens me, but if this state of affairs persists in the United States . . . Honor is dead.

Some background . . . 

You may know that an entity of Colorado state government, Colorado PERA, is attempting to breach its public pension contracts with its retirees. Colorado PERA is attempting a retroactive taking, a “clawback” of accrued, fully-vested pension benefits that were earned by retired PERA members over decades.

Colorado PERA public pension benefits include a “base benefit” that is set at retirement and a “COLA benefit” that adjusts pensions annually to compensate for inflation. The “base benefit” and the “COLA benefit” are set forth in Colorado statutes with identical force of law and legal status.

In its attempt to breach retiree contracts Colorado PERA has created a contrivance. The contrivance that Colorado PERA is using is that somehow the “base benefit” is a contractual obligation, but the “COLA benefit” is not a contractual obligation, in spite of the fact that both pension benefits are set forth in law in an identical manner. What this boils down to is attempted, unabashed, theft by government.

Whether or not Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested public pension benefits from PERA retirees is ultimately successful in the courts, one fact has been incontrovertibly established . . . Colorado PERA, as an instrumentality of the State of Colorado, is an organization that will lie to achieve its policy goals. 

This is a sad fact for the many employees of Colorado PERA, for the trustees that have served on the Colorado PERA Board of Trustees over 80 years, and for the thousands of PERA members and retirees. 
And now, the proof of the deceit . . .

Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA . . . and then, after initiating their attempt to breach contracts, Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA. Both of these statements cannot be true.

Colorado PERA in a written document, to the Colorado General Assembly’s Joint Budget Committee on December 16, 2009 states that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA:

“The General Assembly cannot decrease the COLA (absent actuarial necessity) because it is part of the contractual obligations that accrue under a pension plan protected under the Colorado Constitution Article II, Section 11 and the United States Constitution Article 1, Section 10 for vested contractual rights.” 

Link:

http://www.kentlambert.com/Files/PERA_JBC_Hearing_Responses-12-16-2009_Final.pdf

Colorado PERA on page 23 of its May 6, 2011 “Reply Brief” in the pension case Justus v. State states that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA:

“Plaintiffs seek to create a contract right that has never existed—an unchangeable COLA for life triggered (inconsistently) by either the date of their retirement or ‘full vesting.’”

Link:

http://saveperacola.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/2011-05-06-pera-defendants_-reply-in-support-of-summary-judgment.pdf

That is simply unbelievable.

In one document PERA writes &quot;the contract right has never existed.&quot; In the other they write that the COLA benefit is a contractual obligation protected under the Colorado and US constitutions. 

When PERA writes that they need &quot;actuarial necessity&quot; to take the COLA benefit, they are not denying that it is a contractual obligation, in fact, it is an admission of the contractual nature of the COLA benefit. 

For further information regarding Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested pension benefits from retirees visit saveperacola.com or Friend Save Pera Cola on Facebook.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHY ARE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS NOT SUPPORTING THE BREACH OF THEIR RETIRED MEMBER&#8217;S PENSION CONTRACTS LIKE PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS IN COLORADO? (THE GREATEST ACT OF TREACHERY IN THE HISTORY OF THE U.S. UNION MOVEMENT.)</p>
<p>PROOF THAT COLORADO’S GOVERNMENT LIES: COLORADO PERA’S ATTEMPT TO TAKE CONTRACTED RETIREE BENEFITS.</p>
<p>When I was young I held the belief that public service in the United States is honorable, that the United States of America was exceptional in the world, that governments in the United States, while flawed, deserved the respect of citizens. </p>
<p>Now that I am old, I see that I was naive . . . that governmental entities in the United States will intentionally deceive to achieve their goals, and that over two centuries our soldiers have died for a country that will countenance, and even celebrate, base behavior o&#8230;n the part of its public sector instrumentalities. It saddens me, but if this state of affairs persists in the United States . . . Honor is dead.</p>
<p>Some background . . . </p>
<p>You may know that an entity of Colorado state government, Colorado PERA, is attempting to breach its public pension contracts with its retirees. Colorado PERA is attempting a retroactive taking, a “clawback” of accrued, fully-vested pension benefits that were earned by retired PERA members over decades.</p>
<p>Colorado PERA public pension benefits include a “base benefit” that is set at retirement and a “COLA benefit” that adjusts pensions annually to compensate for inflation. The “base benefit” and the “COLA benefit” are set forth in Colorado statutes with identical force of law and legal status.</p>
<p>In its attempt to breach retiree contracts Colorado PERA has created a contrivance. The contrivance that Colorado PERA is using is that somehow the “base benefit” is a contractual obligation, but the “COLA benefit” is not a contractual obligation, in spite of the fact that both pension benefits are set forth in law in an identical manner. What this boils down to is attempted, unabashed, theft by government.</p>
<p>Whether or not Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested public pension benefits from PERA retirees is ultimately successful in the courts, one fact has been incontrovertibly established . . . Colorado PERA, as an instrumentality of the State of Colorado, is an organization that will lie to achieve its policy goals. </p>
<p>This is a sad fact for the many employees of Colorado PERA, for the trustees that have served on the Colorado PERA Board of Trustees over 80 years, and for the thousands of PERA members and retirees.<br />
And now, the proof of the deceit . . .</p>
<p>Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA . . . and then, after initiating their attempt to breach contracts, Colorado PERA has told us, in writing, that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA. Both of these statements cannot be true.</p>
<p>Colorado PERA in a written document, to the Colorado General Assembly’s Joint Budget Committee on December 16, 2009 states that the PERA COLA benefit IS a contractual obligation of PERA:</p>
<p>“The General Assembly cannot decrease the COLA (absent actuarial necessity) because it is part of the contractual obligations that accrue under a pension plan protected under the Colorado Constitution Article II, Section 11 and the United States Constitution Article 1, Section 10 for vested contractual rights.” </p>
<p>Link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kentlambert.com/Files/PERA_JBC_Hearing_Responses-12-16-2009_Final.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.kentlambert.com/Files/PERA_JBC_Hearing_Responses-12-16-2009_Final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Colorado PERA on page 23 of its May 6, 2011 “Reply Brief” in the pension case Justus v. State states that the PERA COLA benefit IS NOT a contractual obligation of PERA:</p>
<p>“Plaintiffs seek to create a contract right that has never existed—an unchangeable COLA for life triggered (inconsistently) by either the date of their retirement or ‘full vesting.’”</p>
<p>Link:</p>
<p><a href="http://saveperacola.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/2011-05-06-pera-defendants_-reply-in-support-of-summary-judgment.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://saveperacola.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/2011-05-06-pera-defendants_-reply-in-support-of-summary-judgment.pdf</a></p>
<p>That is simply unbelievable.</p>
<p>In one document PERA writes &#8220;the contract right has never existed.&#8221; In the other they write that the COLA benefit is a contractual obligation protected under the Colorado and US constitutions. </p>
<p>When PERA writes that they need &#8220;actuarial necessity&#8221; to take the COLA benefit, they are not denying that it is a contractual obligation, in fact, it is an admission of the contractual nature of the COLA benefit. </p>
<p>For further information regarding Colorado PERA’s attempt to take fully-vested pension benefits from retirees visit saveperacola.com or Friend Save Pera Cola on Facebook.</p>
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		<title>
		By: eatingdogfood		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2012/08/30/gov-browns-pension-non-reform/#comment-23859</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eatingdogfood]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=31650#comment-23859</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear Public Sector Employee or Retire : I would like to meet up with you for some Companionship and maybe even some Romance! I need a little Support at this time in my life cause I worked in the Private Sector for a Major Corporation for 45 Years and my Pension is frankly, Pathetic. I guess I&#039;m Lucky to even have a Pension as Pathetic as it is. And the Private Sector Pension that I have, has NO COLA Provisions. So the longer that I am retired, the Pension Check remains the Same. I don&#039;t have any Medical either, Except paying through the nose for Medicare. I know that you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector don&#039;t have those Problems. I helped you Guys and Girls out for 45 Years by again Paying through the Nose in Taxes which supported you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector so that you would be Comfortable. Even though I&#039;m in my 70&#039;s, I can still get it up, so don&#039;t worry about that. And if need be; there are always Chemicals to take care of that kind of Problem. Hoping to hear from you soon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Public Sector Employee or Retire : I would like to meet up with you for some Companionship and maybe even some Romance! I need a little Support at this time in my life cause I worked in the Private Sector for a Major Corporation for 45 Years and my Pension is frankly, Pathetic. I guess I&#8217;m Lucky to even have a Pension as Pathetic as it is. And the Private Sector Pension that I have, has NO COLA Provisions. So the longer that I am retired, the Pension Check remains the Same. I don&#8217;t have any Medical either, Except paying through the nose for Medicare. I know that you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector don&#8217;t have those Problems. I helped you Guys and Girls out for 45 Years by again Paying through the Nose in Taxes which supported you Guys and Girls in the Public Sector so that you would be Comfortable. Even though I&#8217;m in my 70&#8217;s, I can still get it up, so don&#8217;t worry about that. And if need be; there are always Chemicals to take care of that kind of Problem. Hoping to hear from you soon.</p>
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