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	Comments on: California Solar Initiative: overhyped and underperforming	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Leo		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-45171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-45171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are many variables that are involved with the installation of residential of Solar PV panels.  Most of California is at a good latitude and have relatively low cloud cover for most months.  It requires a simple paper and pencil or internet application study to yield the results at any particular residence address.  So lets say you own a residence in an area where you could install solar PV panels?  This is no longer a technical problem and not a cost problem but a bureaucratic one.  In my case I was a bubble sitter and watched on the sidelines as the NINJA home owners lost &quot;their&quot; houses.  I bought at the bottom of our local market 18 months ago and am no longer a renter.  Why mention this?  Because I have been studying the activities of the house salesmen and realize that it is extremely difficult to find one who only lies 50% of the time instead of 100% of the time.  It took 3 years to find a sometimes honest agent and almost correct price.

The monthly electric bill on this house was $425-550/ month and the propane gas was about an additional $100/month.  Today our highest month was for electric was $94 and we are running about $6/month on natural gas.  I AM NOT A tree hugger or greenie but do want to minimize long term payments for an expendable &quot;non-asset&quot; like utility bills.

My approach was in three areas:

1) DIY dual pane windows, DIY thermal window coverings, DIY energy management (open the North facing windows and shades and close the South facing windows and shades in the summer).  I got rid of all the incandescent and CFL lamps and replaced them with LED lamps.  My costs were NOMINAL because I did the work.  The materials cost was low.  NO &quot;government rebates&quot; requested or used.

2) Install a natural gas line between the street and the house.  This was the most expensive even though I did most of the labor (dig a ditch for the gas line).  The costs for the County PERMITS and a short piece of gas line (under the street) cost me over $6,000 from the utility company.  I watched the utility workers and 2 of them worked 3 1/2 on day one and 2 more worked 3 hours to close up the job on the next day.  That&#039;s $6,000 for 6.5 hours of work = $923/hr for the workers or $462.50 per hour for labor.  I don&#039;t think the workers were getting paid that much!  This installation replaced propane with natural gas is now costing the utility company over $300/month they would have received from me in higher utility bills.  It is also costing the propane company about $100/mo in use and tank rent fees. 
I did 90% of the work myself (all you need is a shovel and some muscle --cheaper than a gym membership).  I later learned it was the high  cost of utility bills that broke the family budget of the former owners forcing them to lose the house.


3) Solar PV panels.  I have not yet installed the solar panels but it is not cost that stalls my project, it is the ignorant way that California and the utility determine my power needs!  I DO NOT want any rebates---they are bogus and greatly increase the cost of my project.  Why?  The utility company uses state law to determine &quot;what I can spend&quot; and how many panels I can afford for my residence!  What the hey!  I am paying cash for this and KNOW WHAT I WANT and what am willing to pay.  No contracts and double talk that will ONLY increase my costs.  The utility company claims that THEY MUST do an energy  audit first AT MY COST.  What about the THOUSANDS of hard dollar savings I have already done by not paying for overpriced utilities?  So far my monthly savings are noticeable and my economic analysis show that I am only a few months away from amortizing my materials and installation costs.  But the utility with the help of California regulations wants to &quot;help me&quot; to determine my needs!  I KNOW EXACTLY what I can afford and what I &quot;need&quot; so let ME make the decision, it&#039;s MY MONEY.  Currently each California electric utility has an artificially low allowable monthly kilowatt generation rate.  This rate is based on calculations that look at a contractor installed solar PV system at retail list materials and labor costs.  My DIY projected materials and labor costs are about 15-20% of their projected costs.  This is one of the unstated factors on the so-called California electric rebate scam.  I know what I want and what I want to pay.  Leave me alone and get out of my business.

I have not included local permit costs which are based on what the county thinks my costs are (astronomically higher than my real costs, even with high quality components).

What we need is the utility to pay us for the energy we generate and pay us the rates that THEY pay energy suppliers!  What&#039;s wrong with that?

I know, the utility company will start losing EXCESS profit that they made on the prior inefficient consumer use of energy---the same one they want to prevent you from making.  

Think about it-  it is not rocket science.  If the utility &quot;helps&quot; you lower your costs it will have a direct effect on their net profits.  I am not asking them to do anything, but stay out of my business.  The utilities AND CALIFORNIA STATE are conspiring to keep costs high and out of reach of the typical consumer.  This is opposite their &quot;feel good&quot;, &quot;tree hugging&quot;, &quot;helpful&quot; regulations.


A Solar PV panel installation using a little thought can be a no brainer installation for most Californians.  It is NOWHERE as expensive as you are being told by the industry or by California government.  The words &quot;electricity&quot; and &quot;utilities&quot; scares most residential customers but there is NEW TECHNOLOGY (Not Solyndra) that is available to everyone who really wants to save money on electricity bills on a grid tied system.

A few recommendations based on the solar insolation for your property:

1) Don&#039;t be overly concerned with panel efficiency.  Look for high quality panels with excellent warranties that can be purchased in bulk.  Most PV panels are sold in pallet sizes.  My stage I plan uses 24 PV panels, but they are not &quot;high efficiency&quot; and cost much much lower per unit.

2) Try to use &quot;micro-inverters&quot; for each panel or every two panels.  They seem costly but are extremely helpful in allowing you to get the most for your money, best operation and EASE of installation.  Just plug them into your AC string like plugging in a reading lamp!  EASY &quot;install&quot;.  Can you plug a lamp into the wall?  You do not need a &quot;solar&quot; engineer.  The output of each panel is at 110 VAC.  Keep maximum of 12 panels per string and you won&#039;t have any issues.  

3) Use any search engine and type in &quot;solar&quot; and &quot;wholesale&quot; and you will quickly find vendors who will help you at no cost.  Its easier than buying a car.  Keep away from the &quot;talkers&quot;,&quot;yakkers&quot; and smiling faces and you will be fine.  Don&#039;t finance anything.  Cash works best.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many variables that are involved with the installation of residential of Solar PV panels.  Most of California is at a good latitude and have relatively low cloud cover for most months.  It requires a simple paper and pencil or internet application study to yield the results at any particular residence address.  So lets say you own a residence in an area where you could install solar PV panels?  This is no longer a technical problem and not a cost problem but a bureaucratic one.  In my case I was a bubble sitter and watched on the sidelines as the NINJA home owners lost &#8220;their&#8221; houses.  I bought at the bottom of our local market 18 months ago and am no longer a renter.  Why mention this?  Because I have been studying the activities of the house salesmen and realize that it is extremely difficult to find one who only lies 50% of the time instead of 100% of the time.  It took 3 years to find a sometimes honest agent and almost correct price.</p>
<p>The monthly electric bill on this house was $425-550/ month and the propane gas was about an additional $100/month.  Today our highest month was for electric was $94 and we are running about $6/month on natural gas.  I AM NOT A tree hugger or greenie but do want to minimize long term payments for an expendable &#8220;non-asset&#8221; like utility bills.</p>
<p>My approach was in three areas:</p>
<p>1) DIY dual pane windows, DIY thermal window coverings, DIY energy management (open the North facing windows and shades and close the South facing windows and shades in the summer).  I got rid of all the incandescent and CFL lamps and replaced them with LED lamps.  My costs were NOMINAL because I did the work.  The materials cost was low.  NO &#8220;government rebates&#8221; requested or used.</p>
<p>2) Install a natural gas line between the street and the house.  This was the most expensive even though I did most of the labor (dig a ditch for the gas line).  The costs for the County PERMITS and a short piece of gas line (under the street) cost me over $6,000 from the utility company.  I watched the utility workers and 2 of them worked 3 1/2 on day one and 2 more worked 3 hours to close up the job on the next day.  That&#8217;s $6,000 for 6.5 hours of work = $923/hr for the workers or $462.50 per hour for labor.  I don&#8217;t think the workers were getting paid that much!  This installation replaced propane with natural gas is now costing the utility company over $300/month they would have received from me in higher utility bills.  It is also costing the propane company about $100/mo in use and tank rent fees.<br />
I did 90% of the work myself (all you need is a shovel and some muscle &#8211;cheaper than a gym membership).  I later learned it was the high  cost of utility bills that broke the family budget of the former owners forcing them to lose the house.</p>
<p>3) Solar PV panels.  I have not yet installed the solar panels but it is not cost that stalls my project, it is the ignorant way that California and the utility determine my power needs!  I DO NOT want any rebates&#8212;they are bogus and greatly increase the cost of my project.  Why?  The utility company uses state law to determine &#8220;what I can spend&#8221; and how many panels I can afford for my residence!  What the hey!  I am paying cash for this and KNOW WHAT I WANT and what am willing to pay.  No contracts and double talk that will ONLY increase my costs.  The utility company claims that THEY MUST do an energy  audit first AT MY COST.  What about the THOUSANDS of hard dollar savings I have already done by not paying for overpriced utilities?  So far my monthly savings are noticeable and my economic analysis show that I am only a few months away from amortizing my materials and installation costs.  But the utility with the help of California regulations wants to &#8220;help me&#8221; to determine my needs!  I KNOW EXACTLY what I can afford and what I &#8220;need&#8221; so let ME make the decision, it&#8217;s MY MONEY.  Currently each California electric utility has an artificially low allowable monthly kilowatt generation rate.  This rate is based on calculations that look at a contractor installed solar PV system at retail list materials and labor costs.  My DIY projected materials and labor costs are about 15-20% of their projected costs.  This is one of the unstated factors on the so-called California electric rebate scam.  I know what I want and what I want to pay.  Leave me alone and get out of my business.</p>
<p>I have not included local permit costs which are based on what the county thinks my costs are (astronomically higher than my real costs, even with high quality components).</p>
<p>What we need is the utility to pay us for the energy we generate and pay us the rates that THEY pay energy suppliers!  What&#8217;s wrong with that?</p>
<p>I know, the utility company will start losing EXCESS profit that they made on the prior inefficient consumer use of energy&#8212;the same one they want to prevent you from making.  </p>
<p>Think about it-  it is not rocket science.  If the utility &#8220;helps&#8221; you lower your costs it will have a direct effect on their net profits.  I am not asking them to do anything, but stay out of my business.  The utilities AND CALIFORNIA STATE are conspiring to keep costs high and out of reach of the typical consumer.  This is opposite their &#8220;feel good&#8221;, &#8220;tree hugging&#8221;, &#8220;helpful&#8221; regulations.</p>
<p>A Solar PV panel installation using a little thought can be a no brainer installation for most Californians.  It is NOWHERE as expensive as you are being told by the industry or by California government.  The words &#8220;electricity&#8221; and &#8220;utilities&#8221; scares most residential customers but there is NEW TECHNOLOGY (Not Solyndra) that is available to everyone who really wants to save money on electricity bills on a grid tied system.</p>
<p>A few recommendations based on the solar insolation for your property:</p>
<p>1) Don&#8217;t be overly concerned with panel efficiency.  Look for high quality panels with excellent warranties that can be purchased in bulk.  Most PV panels are sold in pallet sizes.  My stage I plan uses 24 PV panels, but they are not &#8220;high efficiency&#8221; and cost much much lower per unit.</p>
<p>2) Try to use &#8220;micro-inverters&#8221; for each panel or every two panels.  They seem costly but are extremely helpful in allowing you to get the most for your money, best operation and EASE of installation.  Just plug them into your AC string like plugging in a reading lamp!  EASY &#8220;install&#8221;.  Can you plug a lamp into the wall?  You do not need a &#8220;solar&#8221; engineer.  The output of each panel is at 110 VAC.  Keep maximum of 12 panels per string and you won&#8217;t have any issues.  </p>
<p>3) Use any search engine and type in &#8220;solar&#8221; and &#8220;wholesale&#8221; and you will quickly find vendors who will help you at no cost.  Its easier than buying a car.  Keep away from the &#8220;talkers&#8221;,&#8221;yakkers&#8221; and smiling faces and you will be fine.  Don&#8217;t finance anything.  Cash works best.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ted Steele, The Decider		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-30990</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted Steele, The Decider]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jul 2013 13:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-30990</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[...although Borenstein has said that just like the diesel tax got us off steam power and the auto gas tax got us off horse and buggies, this in time will work.......Galt indeed!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;although Borenstein has said that just like the diesel tax got us off steam power and the auto gas tax got us off horse and buggies, this in time will work&#8230;&#8230;.Galt indeed!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Bill - San Jose		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-30906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill - San Jose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-30906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Met an engineer at a local solar company.  I gave him props for the technology and what they were doing.

He stated: &quot;Well, we can build solar panel plants and build solar products for 20 years .... but it will only be 5% of what the world needs.  We still need hydro-electric, nuclear and petroleum.&quot;

You can&#039;t get it anymore clear than that folks.  Gospel truth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Met an engineer at a local solar company.  I gave him props for the technology and what they were doing.</p>
<p>He stated: &#8220;Well, we can build solar panel plants and build solar products for 20 years &#8230;. but it will only be 5% of what the world needs.  We still need hydro-electric, nuclear and petroleum.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t get it anymore clear than that folks.  Gospel truth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: doug		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-30897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[doug]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-30897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[nub,
if i could get solar power from the sun and install the grid system myself and not get sued by the utility for &quot;stealing&quot; from them, i&#039;d do it. its over regulated and a scam. Edison will not let you cut your bill in half and have your new system paid off within 3 years. think about it, that is lost revenue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nub,<br />
if i could get solar power from the sun and install the grid system myself and not get sued by the utility for &#8220;stealing&#8221; from them, i&#8217;d do it. its over regulated and a scam. Edison will not let you cut your bill in half and have your new system paid off within 3 years. think about it, that is lost revenue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Alpena3D		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-30876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alpena3D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-30876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Are we sure that C02 is the culprit, not the sun and its effects on low level cloudiness cover?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we sure that C02 is the culprit, not the sun and its effects on low level cloudiness cover?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: nubwaxer		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-13301</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nubwaxer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-13301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[i&#039;m sorry you are a carbon advocate rather than accepting the inevitable and trying to provide solution for power production rather than sitting in a tree throwing $h!t.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m sorry you are a carbon advocate rather than accepting the inevitable and trying to provide solution for power production rather than sitting in a tree throwing $h!t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: ECK		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-13300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ECK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jul 2013 02:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-13300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When are the bulk of our citizens going to wake up and realize what BS this solar s**t is?  Never I guess, since the media has bought into this &quot;alternative energy&quot; hoax.  Anyone with half a brain can see that these &quot;green&quot; ideas could supply us with anywhere near the energy we need.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When are the bulk of our citizens going to wake up and realize what BS this solar s**t is?  Never I guess, since the media has bought into this &#8220;alternative energy&#8221; hoax.  Anyone with half a brain can see that these &#8220;green&#8221; ideas could supply us with anywhere near the energy we need.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Maquila Solar Is the Wave of the Future		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-13299</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maquila Solar Is the Wave of the Future]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jul 2013 01:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-13299</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think cost was ever a consideration here. The purpose of the program was to Save The Planet.

Is this program going to reach its goal of 3 gigawatts of electricity generation by 2016?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think cost was ever a consideration here. The purpose of the program was to Save The Planet.</p>
<p>Is this program going to reach its goal of 3 gigawatts of electricity generation by 2016?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: John Galt		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2013/07/10/california-solar-initiative-overhyped-and-underperforming/#comment-13298</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Galt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jul 2013 16:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calwatchdog.com/?p=44786#comment-13298</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wayne,

Penetrating article on the state&#039;s solar program and ongoing electric tariff fraud. There appears to be a typo in this line: 
&quot;...Peak prices can spike to $250 per megawatt hour (or about $25 per kilowatt hour) during the hot July and August months in California. ..&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne,</p>
<p>Penetrating article on the state&#8217;s solar program and ongoing electric tariff fraud. There appears to be a typo in this line:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;Peak prices can spike to $250 per megawatt hour (or about $25 per kilowatt hour) during the hot July and August months in California. ..&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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