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	<title>
	Comments on: Ivanpah solar power shifts pollution to the desert	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:13:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Rico		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-140344</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rico]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=62958#comment-140344</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve flown over it.  It&#039;s cool to look at, but it&#039;s hardly a problem from that distance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve flown over it.  It&#8217;s cool to look at, but it&#8217;s hardly a problem from that distance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rico		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-140343</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rico]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=62958#comment-140343</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78917&quot;&gt;Irv&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;ve flown over it.  It&#039;s cool to look at, but it&#039;s hardly a problem from that distance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78917">Irv</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve flown over it.  It&#8217;s cool to look at, but it&#8217;s hardly a problem from that distance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lars J		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-82043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lars J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2014 05:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=62958#comment-82043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78968&quot;&gt;Rich A&lt;/a&gt;.

The projected CO2 output of 92,200 tonnes/yr would generate around 210 MWhrs using a natural gas combined cycle plant.  The projected energy output of Ivanhoe is 1,040 MWhrs/yr so using this combined solar/natural gas plant reduced the CO2 output by 80% or so.  Note that the cost of this reduction is around $2.2B capital costs which is around double the capital cost per MWHr as new build nuclear and dramatically higher costs than say replacing the steam generators at San Onofre.  Further, this system produces energy primarily when the sun shines - not on demand.  If you are willing to pay double the price, and consume 4,000 acres of desert, then having one of these things is a way to shave off some of the summer peak loading and it may even have a net positive effect on the grid.  Note though that the value of such solar systems to the grid drops rapidly as it tries to supply increasing percentages of the grid power.  This exists only because the politicians dictated that it must (and voters elected the politicians) but we get to pay for it in our rates (and in companies leaving for lower cost states to operate).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78968">Rich A</a>.</p>
<p>The projected CO2 output of 92,200 tonnes/yr would generate around 210 MWhrs using a natural gas combined cycle plant.  The projected energy output of Ivanhoe is 1,040 MWhrs/yr so using this combined solar/natural gas plant reduced the CO2 output by 80% or so.  Note that the cost of this reduction is around $2.2B capital costs which is around double the capital cost per MWHr as new build nuclear and dramatically higher costs than say replacing the steam generators at San Onofre.  Further, this system produces energy primarily when the sun shines &#8211; not on demand.  If you are willing to pay double the price, and consume 4,000 acres of desert, then having one of these things is a way to shave off some of the summer peak loading and it may even have a net positive effect on the grid.  Note though that the value of such solar systems to the grid drops rapidly as it tries to supply increasing percentages of the grid power.  This exists only because the politicians dictated that it must (and voters elected the politicians) but we get to pay for it in our rates (and in companies leaving for lower cost states to operate).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ricky65		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-79338</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ricky65]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=62958#comment-79338</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78968&quot;&gt;Rich A&lt;/a&gt;.

Ok,how about comparing it to a hydro power plant which is a truly &#039;renewable &#039; power source? 
Even though the emissions from hydro and nuclear are near zero, they are not considered &#039;renewable&#039; energy in the Alice in Wonderland world of CARB. 
And Ivanpah uses natural gas for a significant portion of its power generation yet the owners and buyers of power get to count its total generation as green power toward their 33% AB 32 mandate.
In your wildest dreams you could not make up a more harebrained scheme as the AB 32 law. 

All this is by design of the elitist Greens and their enabler Democrat allies to bankrupt the middle class and depopulate the rural areas. The plan is to force residents into crowded Soviet style apartments along side the train tracks in inner-city ghettos. After all, in the green elitist view, these &#039;little people&#039; do not need, nor deserve cars just mass transit by rail cattle cars. 
Nor do they need wasteful houses in the suburbs where they can multiply lie flies and breed even more people to destroy the planet.  
So the idea is to destroy all manufacturing and decent paying jobs through regulation and allow mass illegal immigration to drive down wages.  In order to prevent mass revolt due to their economic conditions, the displaced will be provided free stuff in the form of meager government handouts.  
In the process, the middle class will become forever dependent on government for their existence and therefore loyal Democrat voters to boot.  
And the Green oligarchs get what they want. By de-populating the state the Earth can heal once more. 
Besides the elitists don&#039;t want  to look at all that ugly suburban sprawl and all those happy breeders while they travel to and from Lake Tahoe or one of their many vacation homes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78968">Rich A</a>.</p>
<p>Ok,how about comparing it to a hydro power plant which is a truly &#8216;renewable &#8216; power source?<br />
Even though the emissions from hydro and nuclear are near zero, they are not considered &#8216;renewable&#8217; energy in the Alice in Wonderland world of CARB.<br />
And Ivanpah uses natural gas for a significant portion of its power generation yet the owners and buyers of power get to count its total generation as green power toward their 33% AB 32 mandate.<br />
In your wildest dreams you could not make up a more harebrained scheme as the AB 32 law. </p>
<p>All this is by design of the elitist Greens and their enabler Democrat allies to bankrupt the middle class and depopulate the rural areas. The plan is to force residents into crowded Soviet style apartments along side the train tracks in inner-city ghettos. After all, in the green elitist view, these &#8216;little people&#8217; do not need, nor deserve cars just mass transit by rail cattle cars.<br />
Nor do they need wasteful houses in the suburbs where they can multiply lie flies and breed even more people to destroy the planet.<br />
So the idea is to destroy all manufacturing and decent paying jobs through regulation and allow mass illegal immigration to drive down wages.  In order to prevent mass revolt due to their economic conditions, the displaced will be provided free stuff in the form of meager government handouts.<br />
In the process, the middle class will become forever dependent on government for their existence and therefore loyal Democrat voters to boot.<br />
And the Green oligarchs get what they want. By de-populating the state the Earth can heal once more.<br />
Besides the elitists don&#8217;t want  to look at all that ugly suburban sprawl and all those happy breeders while they travel to and from Lake Tahoe or one of their many vacation homes.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Rich A		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78968</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2014 00:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=62958#comment-78968</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is required to compare this CO2 output to another power plant producing the same power.  It makes no sense to compare to automobiles.  
Please compare pollution vs power output, of say a natural gas fired plant, or coal fired plant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is required to compare this CO2 output to another power plant producing the same power.  It makes no sense to compare to automobiles.<br />
Please compare pollution vs power output, of say a natural gas fired plant, or coal fired plant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Irv		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/25/ivanpah-solar-power-shifts-pollution-to-the-desert/#comment-78917</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Irv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2014 16:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=62958#comment-78917</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lets not forget the complaint airline pilots have placed about blinding them while flying above the Ivanpah solar plant. Another reason solar must be forgotten about completely and quick!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets not forget the complaint airline pilots have placed about blinding them while flying above the Ivanpah solar plant. Another reason solar must be forgotten about completely and quick!!</p>
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