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	Comments on: Can tiered water rates be used to encourage conservation?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Delta Tunnels &#124; Local National News		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-117984</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Delta Tunnels &#124; Local National News]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-117984</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Can tiered water rates be used to encourage conservation? [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Can tiered water rates be used to encourage conservation? [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Delta Tunnels &#124; Local National News		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-117985</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Delta Tunnels &#124; Local National News]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-117985</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Can tiered water rates be used to encourage conservation? [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Can tiered water rates be used to encourage conservation? [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne Lusvardi		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-116534</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Lusvardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2015 21:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-116534</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-116533&quot;&gt;Doug V&lt;/a&gt;.

Doug
I&#039;m not quite sure I understand your question. 

The price of gasoline and electricity are not based on Production Cost because they are considered private goods that are provided by profit making, albeit regulated, utilities or companies.  

WHOLESALE water, on the other hand, is a public good and by definition can only be priced on Production Cost (without profit).  There are some private RETAIL water companies in California that issue stock and are profit making, but their profits are regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission because they are considered natural monopolies. 

So no valid comparison can be made between gasoline, electricity and Wholesale Water as to how it is priced.  

Long term studies indicates tiered water rates do not lessen water usage - Google &quot;Urban Water Demand and Rate Structures over Decades&quot;.  

Studies have shown that conservation of water is not responsive to price but to social norms (probably because it is a Public Good).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-116533">Doug V</a>.</p>
<p>Doug<br />
I&#8217;m not quite sure I understand your question. </p>
<p>The price of gasoline and electricity are not based on Production Cost because they are considered private goods that are provided by profit making, albeit regulated, utilities or companies.  </p>
<p>WHOLESALE water, on the other hand, is a public good and by definition can only be priced on Production Cost (without profit).  There are some private RETAIL water companies in California that issue stock and are profit making, but their profits are regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission because they are considered natural monopolies. </p>
<p>So no valid comparison can be made between gasoline, electricity and Wholesale Water as to how it is priced.  </p>
<p>Long term studies indicates tiered water rates do not lessen water usage &#8211; Google &#8220;Urban Water Demand and Rate Structures over Decades&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Studies have shown that conservation of water is not responsive to price but to social norms (probably because it is a Public Good).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Doug V		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-116533</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug V]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2015 20:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-116533</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Water Districts are giving our water away providing significant volume discounts with or without tiered rates.

This is because Water Districts charge numerous fixed fees including service charges, sewer charges and in many cases property taxes all unrelated to consumption.  These fixed charges allow Water Districts to artificially keep the price per unit of water well below the actual cost.

As an example, consider if Gasoline were priced like water.  Here is what it might look like:
Everyone would pay a $30 service charge before pulling up to the pumps.
The per gallon price of gasoline would be lowered from the current $4/gal to $2/gal.
An economy car requiring 10 gal of gas would pay $50 ($30 service fee + $20 for the 10 gallons of gas) for a per gallon price of $5.00.
A truck requiring 30 gal of gas would pay $90 ($30 service fee + $60 for the 30 gallons of gas) for a per gallon price of $3.00.

If there was no water, then we wouldn&#039;t need sewers.
Does Edison have fixed charges for the nuclear waste disposal?
Do the Oil Companies have fixed charges for the clean-up after spills?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Water Districts are giving our water away providing significant volume discounts with or without tiered rates.</p>
<p>This is because Water Districts charge numerous fixed fees including service charges, sewer charges and in many cases property taxes all unrelated to consumption.  These fixed charges allow Water Districts to artificially keep the price per unit of water well below the actual cost.</p>
<p>As an example, consider if Gasoline were priced like water.  Here is what it might look like:<br />
Everyone would pay a $30 service charge before pulling up to the pumps.<br />
The per gallon price of gasoline would be lowered from the current $4/gal to $2/gal.<br />
An economy car requiring 10 gal of gas would pay $50 ($30 service fee + $20 for the 10 gallons of gas) for a per gallon price of $5.00.<br />
A truck requiring 30 gal of gas would pay $90 ($30 service fee + $60 for the 30 gallons of gas) for a per gallon price of $3.00.</p>
<p>If there was no water, then we wouldn&#8217;t need sewers.<br />
Does Edison have fixed charges for the nuclear waste disposal?<br />
Do the Oil Companies have fixed charges for the clean-up after spills?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne Lusvardi		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Lusvardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-115254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115252&quot;&gt;John Galt&lt;/a&gt;.

Stay tuned to Calwatchdog.  The CPUC is changing the tiered rate structure for electric power too.  A sequel article on the new structure will be posted soon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115252">John Galt</a>.</p>
<p>Stay tuned to Calwatchdog.  The CPUC is changing the tiered rate structure for electric power too.  A sequel article on the new structure will be posted soon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Galt		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115252</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Galt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-115252</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wayne - I agree. A public agency water utility is a monopoly so all sales at any level of usage must be priced at actual cost. Paying more per unit than cost essentially transfers one&#039;s wealth to other customers viewed more favorably by the board members then controlling the pricing and discounting their prices. Water customers have no alternative service providers thus prices must be set at actual cost of providing the service  at all usage levels. Hurrah for Prop. 218! Too bad this proposition doesn&#039;t also apply to CPUC set electric tariffs charged by IOU utilities in the state such as SCE &#038; PG&#038;E. If it did apply,  customers would see the fictional Conservation Incentive charge vaporize.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne &#8211; I agree. A public agency water utility is a monopoly so all sales at any level of usage must be priced at actual cost. Paying more per unit than cost essentially transfers one&#8217;s wealth to other customers viewed more favorably by the board members then controlling the pricing and discounting their prices. Water customers have no alternative service providers thus prices must be set at actual cost of providing the service  at all usage levels. Hurrah for Prop. 218! Too bad this proposition doesn&#8217;t also apply to CPUC set electric tariffs charged by IOU utilities in the state such as SCE &amp; PG&amp;E. If it did apply,  customers would see the fictional Conservation Incentive charge vaporize.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne Lusvardi		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Lusvardi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-115184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115181&quot;&gt;Queeg&lt;/a&gt;.

If you use, say, 3 times the water of the lowest water users, you should pay 3 times the price, not TEN times the price!  Simple principle.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115181">Queeg</a>.</p>
<p>If you use, say, 3 times the water of the lowest water users, you should pay 3 times the price, not TEN times the price!  Simple principle.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Queeg		</title>
		<link>https://calwatchdog.com/2015/04/22/brown-opposition-to-court-water-rate-ruling-targeted-at-prop-218/#comment-115181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Queeg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2015 15:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calwatchdog.com/?p=79334#comment-115181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Comrades

He who has more can pay for more.....he who has less wear dirty socks!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comrades</p>
<p>He who has more can pay for more&#8230;..he who has less wear dirty socks!</p>
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