Separatism loses in SCT, CA

Separatism loses in SCT, CA

William WallaceComing shortly after entrepreneur Tim Draper’s Six Californias initiative failed to qualify for the 2016 ballot, Scotland’s voters decided not to secede from the United Kingdom — yet. So it would seem separatist movements are not doing well.

But pushing such revolts as far as they did shows a tidal shift in how people look at government. Scots voted 45 percent in favor of leaving the UK, a large number. And a lot of the 55 percent “No” votes came from people receiving the large welfare payments sent from London, and promised by PM David Cameron and other UK leaders to get even larger.

According to the BBC, average “public spending per head” — welfare — is a generous £12,300 ($20,650) in Scotland, higher than the £11,000 ($17,944) in the UK as a whole. So if Scotland split, it would lose £1,300 ($2,706) per head in subsidies from the UK. Many people currently on the dole at home watching “The Benny Hill Show” reruns would have to go out, get jobs and work.

The UK also is not in a recession, although growth is not strong. But should a recession strike, or the UK economy fall into severe debt and depression like Greece, sentiments for secession might become overwhelming.

Separatism

Separatist fever also is catching on in many other areas. The Washington Post identified eight that could be “next”: Venice, Catalonia, Faroe Islands, Corsica, South Tyrol, Basque, Flanders and Bavaria.

Even the New York Times noted a “Global Crisis of Elites.” Wrote Neil Irwin:

It is a crisis of the elites. Scotland’s push for independence is driven by a conviction — one not ungrounded in reality — that the British ruling class has blundered through the last couple of decades. The same discontent applies to varying degrees in the United States and, especially, the eurozone. It is, in many ways, a defining feature of our time.

The rise of Catalan would-be secessionists in Spain, the rise of parties of the far right in European countries as diverse as Greece and Sweden, and the Tea Party in the United States are all rooted in a sense that, having been granted vast control over the levers of power, the political elite across the advanced world have made a mess of things.

The details of Scotland’s grievances are almost the diametrical opposite of those of, say, the Tea Party or Swedish right-wingers. They want more social welfare spending rather than less, and have a strongly pro-green, antinuclear environmental streak….

What distinguishes the current moment is that discontent with the way things have been going is so high as to test many people’s tolerance for the governing institutions as they currently exist.

The details are, of course, different in each country.

Private popularity

The Scottish vote came a day before the release of the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, with throngs of fans lining up early before Apple stores.

The contrast is striking: People voluntarily discomfit themselves to buy a privately produced product. Meanwhile, coercive governments everywhere are loathed for incompetence, repression, bureaucratic snafus and high expense.

In California, Gov. Jerry Brown’s re-election slogan is, “California is back!” Yet much of the state, including Los Angeles and the Inland Empire, barely has recovered from the Great Recession, if that. And the governor continues to pursue his Quixotic, $68 billion, 19th-century toy, high-speed rail.

And although Six Californias failed, almost every election brings new reform initiatives — Top  Two, term limits, redistricting — in which the people themselves have to take things into their own hands because their elected representatives and unelected functionaries  have botched things so badly.

Crisis of elites, indeed. Crisis of government, too.

35 comments

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  1. LetitCollapse
    LetitCollapse 19 September, 2014, 13:12

    There were Scottish off-shore oil fields at stake here. Had it passed it would have taken indispensible revenue away from England. Did you really think the “yes” votes ever had a chance of winning? Please…… 😉

    The Scots are slaves to London and the rest of the EU, all of whom had an inherent national financial interest in the “NO” vote.

    It matters not who votes. It matters who counts the votes. Particularly with our modern day electronic voting systems. If they can rig the stock market and the national budget, what makes you think they couldn’t rig the outcome of the your vote? Do you think there’s too much integrity in government for that to happen??? 😀

    Reply this comment
  2. LetitCollapse
    LetitCollapse 19 September, 2014, 13:45

    Did you see the latest Reuter’s poll that asked Americans whether they favored their state seceding from the Federal government and the United States?

    “Almost a quarter (23.9 percent) of those surveyed said they were strongly or provisionally inclined to leave the United States, and take their states with them.”

    As one would expect, the southwest states (Az, NM, Tx) has the highest % at 34%. But nearly all parts of the US showed a % higher than 20%.

    The interesting stat for me was that as income got larger the % desiring seccession got smaller. One would think that poor people would want the Federal government since that’s where the welfare checks are cut. Very strange. The rich seem to FAVOR remaining in the Union even though it’s often reported that the rich are unfairly taxes. Hmmmm. We might have to rethink that theory, eh?

    Maybe this is why the local police forces are becoming militarized. 🙂

    http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/2014/09/19/one-in-four-americans-want-their-state-to-secede-from-the-u-s-but-why/

    Reply this comment
  3. SeeSaw
    SeeSaw 19 September, 2014, 15:14

    I know this–the signature gathering process for the six-states initiative was fraudulent! I was one of the voters approached and lied to by the paid signature gatherer as to the nature of the initiative. The initiative was more favored in the north than in the south, except for Ventura County, which had the highest percentage of valid signatures, 82.2%. They must be putting something in the water in Ventura County. Just last week, a destructive wild fire destroyed homes and businesses in Weed, a town that would have been in Jefferson, if the initiative had passed and given the blessing of Congress. I wonder if the people in Weed are giving thanks for their blessings now, that they are are part of the gigantic state of CA–since the Governor had to call a state emergency and use federal emergency funding to help Weed.

    Reply this comment
  4. LetitCollapse
    LetitCollapse 19 September, 2014, 16:25

    It’s probably best that the “NO” votes won, even if it was rigged. Otherwise the Scots would have been declared “economic terrists” and the Royal Navy would get dispatched to blockade their shipping routes and seize their oil fields. It would’ve gotten messy. Power settles everything in the modern world. Do you really think the NWO and the ruling class would allow a democratic vote to supercede their will? Look in the direction of Ukraine if you question what I say. But if it makes you feel better keep voting and calling your congressman. Oh, and don’t forget to pay your taxes.

    Reply this comment
  5. NTHEOC
    NTHEOC 19 September, 2014, 16:51

    SeeSaw says,
    I wonder if the people in Weed are giving thanks for their blessings now, that they are are part of the gigantic state of CA–since the Governor had to call a state emergency and use federal emergency funding to help Weed.
    ————————————–
    No need to wonder SeeSaw, you damn right they are thankful now! Its the ones who always whine and cry untill they need it. Like Gov Christie in NJ begging Pres Obama for help after the Hurricane and fires.Or Gov Bush in Florida begging for money and help, or Palin and her cronies shouting “NO SUBSIDIES” Yet they took it!! lol. Look no farther than the stories from the Americans caught down in Cabo Mexico after the hurricane, NO POLICE,NO FIREFIGHTERS,NO EMS, NO WATER, NO HELP!!!!!!! People here have it made with our GOVT services……..

    Reply this comment
    • LetitCollapse
      LetitCollapse 19 September, 2014, 17:07

      If I could opt out of police and fire services I would do it in a NYC minute and save a ton in taxes. In a fair world we would be able to pay a small nominal monthly or annual fee (like insurance) to a private paramedic service in case of a medical emergency. Otherwise, I don’t need the fire or the police. Why should I be forced to pay for something I don’t need?? It’s a form of robbery.

      Reply this comment
      • SeeSaw
        SeeSaw 20 September, 2014, 00:12

        Its not a matter of only what you need personally, even though you cannot say for sure that you would never need the services of either police or fire. Its a matter of what is needed and most desirable for the protection of the citizens in the area in which you live. If you live in community that wants to have police and fire services, you will have to pay your share of taxes for the good of all the residents.

        Reply this comment
        • LetitCollapse
          LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 09:56

          “Its not a matter of only what you need personally, even though you cannot say for sure that you would never need the services of either police or fire.”

          If we are truly a ‘free’ country it should be about INDIVIDUAL choices. I shouldn’t be forced to buy something simply because you want it’s benefit. If you want the service, then YOU buy it. But leave me alone! I am quite capable of protecting my own home. Putting out a house fire is not that complicated, as long as one has access to the correct sized hose and the water pressure from the fire hydrant. It’s doesn’t take a brain surgeon to put a fire out. Besides, house fires are rare. I haven’t seen one in my extended neighborhood for more than 15 years. And most house fires are total losses, whether the fire department shows up or not! I don’t need to call a bunch of taxpayer made millionaires to protect my home. I don’t need their damn services. And I shouldn’t be forced to contribute to their multi-million dollar pensions either!!!

          Reply this comment
  6. NTHEOC
    NTHEOC 19 September, 2014, 17:26

    LIC says,
    Why should I be forced to pay for something I don’t need??
    ==================================
    Not the first time i’ve heard someone say that, until they did need us and then it was a whole different story. Good for you collapse that you have never needed us, but you never know what tommorow brings my freind!

    Reply this comment
    • LetitCollapse
      LetitCollapse 19 September, 2014, 21:52

      Less than 3% of the population calls for fire or police in any given year. And most of those are repeat callers. The remaining 97% of us never call public safety. The only time I see a fire truck in the area is when it’s going to the local convelescent home. Those who use the services should get their taxes raised proportionally. I can’t remember the last time I saw a house fire in the area. It’s been at least 15 years ago. All medical calls should be outsourced to private companies. If the fire department only responded to fires we could terminate 80% of the firefighters and save the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars each year. Oh, and if somebody has a heart attack at home it takes the paramedics at least 6 minutes to get there. By that time the the HA victim is already brain dead. So what good are the paramedics?

      Public safety has turned into a huge scam on the taxpayers. This is common knowledge. The entire system needs to be turned inside out.

      Reply this comment
      • S Moderation Douglas
        S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 09:21

        Common knowledge?

        ” Common sense is neither common nor sense.”

        97% of us never need to call the police because their very existence is enough to deter most crime. 97% of us never need the fire department, but we don’t drop our fire insurance, which would be MUCH more expensive without a viable fire department. What happens if a neighbors house catches fire four houses down from yours and there is no one to stop the spread?

        It’s common knowledge that fires don’t quickly stop themselves.

        My mother in law is housebound and NEVER uses the roads or freeways. Which are used every day by others to supply her every need.

        You do not live in the wild frontier. No man is an island.

        Reply this comment
        • LetitCollapse
          LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 10:12

          You don’t have to be Einstein to fight a fire. All you need are hoses, access to a fire hydrant, a ladder or two, a couple axes and a few men. We should go back to the old neighborhood volunteer fire departments which worked perfectly fine. Besides, only about 2% of the calls responded to by FIREmen are FIRES. Most are medical calls. And we should have PRIVATE PARAMEDIC COMPANIES to handle medical emergencies like that. We could downsize the fire departments by 80% and save HUGE AMOUNTS of tax dollars.

          And I can deter my own crime. Let one burglar try to break into my place and see what happens. Once word travels I wouldn’t have any future problem with burglars.

          But if you want to pay for police and fire services, go right ahead. That’s your business. But forcing ME to participate by order of the ruling class for YOUR benefit is fascism.

          Reply this comment
          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 10:18

            “And I can deter my own crime. Let one burglar try to break into my place and see what happens.”

            LOL!!!!

          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 10:26

            “access to a fire hydrant,”

            One of those magic fire hydrants which appear at no cost to me, or you?

          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 10:31

            I worked the freeways for years. I’ve seen the “fire” crews pull grateful survivors out of mangled cars, CHP controlling the scene and investigating, and CalTRANS doing traffic control and clearing and repairing the roadway to get traffic moving again. You are incredibly naive.

          • LetitCollapse
            LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 10:53

            “One of those magic fire hydrants which appear at no cost to me, or you?”

            One doesn’t have to be a millionaire high-skool educated firewhiner to know how to operate a fire hydrant to put out a fire. I’ve got nothing against hydrants. What I can’t stand is being gouged by a bunch of overpaid frat boys who sleep a 3rd of their shifts and get paid for it. I see ’em in the gym all the time playing BB and working out on the taxpayer’s dime. What other job allows that crap?

            Oh, and one doesn’t have to be a millionaire frat boy firewhiner to pull people from mangled cars. The private sector could accomplish that easily at half of what we pay the frat boys.

          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 10:58

            LOL!!!

            John Galt says “Who is LetitCollapse.”

          • LetitCollapse
            LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 11:11

            It’s got nothing to do with Galt.

            It’s got everything to do with getting financially raped by a bunch of high-skool educated millionaire frat boys who would have a hard time landing a job at WalMart if they ever lost their jobs at the FD.

          • LetitCollapse
            LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 11:14

            “I worked the freeways for years.”

            Picking up litter in an orange jumpsuit?

            L-O-L

          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 12:03

            ” It’s got everything to do with getting financially raped by a bunch of high-skool educated millionaire frat boys who would have a hard time landing a job at WalMart if they ever lost their jobs at the FD.”

            Jealousy, in other words. And ignorance of the requirements and training, and dedication of professional safety workers.

            Schools, welfare, infrastructure, national defense, disease control, environmental control…….very little of your tax dollars actually goes to police and fire, and it’s all money well spent.

            Oh!!!! And don’t even get me started on them aliens!!!!!

            LOL

          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 15:24

            I still have my orange jumpsuit.

          • bob
            bob 20 September, 2014, 16:02

            And we should have PRIVATE PARAMEDIC COMPANIES to handle medical emergencies like that. We could downsize the fire departments by 80% and save HUGE AMOUNTS of tax dollars.

            The RAWGI would never permit this.

          • LetitCollapse
            LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 16:48

            “…very little of your tax dollars actually goes to police and fire…”

            You’re misinformed. Research it. Some cities spend as much as 75% of their budgets on public safety. It’s a scam. All public safety should be outsourced to the private sector. We’d pay half the amount and the quality of service would improve.

          • S Moderation Douglas
            S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 18:34

            Kinda.

            It’s hard to get good numbers. Everyone has their own agenda. Typically 70 to 80% of the budget is personnel costs. Safety and all other city personnel.

            That would be the general fund budget, which is typically 60 to 70% of the total budget. Which people tend to forget.

            Which makes personnel costs usually less than half the total budget. But where’s the fun in that?

            The percentages have greatly increased in the last six years partly because revenues everywhere have dropped sharply. Still a bargain.

            Maybe if we split California into six states that will help?

            The glass is at least half full.

          • LetitCollapse
            LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 23:09

            “The percentages have greatly increased in the last six years partly because revenues everywhere have dropped sharply.”

            No. It’s because salaries and benefits for public safety personnel have increased in the last 6 years. If the make cops and firefighters pay bigger pension contributions they just offset it by giving them bigger salaries and health care benefits. So at best it’s a wash. But most cops and firefighters are making more than ever in 2014. That’s because the unions own the politicians. It’s a corrupted, rigged system.

            I would be totally in favor of Cali splitting into 6 states. But as in Scotland, the ruling class would never allow that to happen. Any attempt would be blindsided in one way or another by the oligarchs.

    • S Moderation Douglas
      S Moderation Douglas 20 September, 2014, 09:22

      Thank you for your service.

      Reply this comment
  7. LetitCollapse
    LetitCollapse 19 September, 2014, 21:42

    Here, what did I tell you?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg

    There was a lot riding on this seccession vote. It would have put England right behind the eight ball.

    This deserves a recount or two and some people need to go to jail.

    The ruling class knows the election outcomes in advance.

    With media manipulation and vote rigging the common man doesn’t have a chance anymore.

    But keep voting and calling your congressman. And don’t forget to mail your taxes in on time.

    Reply this comment
  8. SeeSaw
    SeeSaw 20 September, 2014, 14:50

    You are probably not aware, LIC, that your Fire Insurance rates will be based on the quality of fire dept. services available in your residential area. But, I suppose you do not carry fire insurance, because you will never have a fire. You will elect to leave your family stuck with a huge medical bill after your passing, because, even though the paramedics had transported your dying carcass to the hospital, when you had your heart attack, you had been too cheap and stubborn to pay the $4/month paramedic charge–oh I suppose you are never going to have a heart attack either.

    Reply this comment
    • LetitCollapse
      LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 17:01

      I could count the number of house fires that I’ve seen in my life on one hand, seesaw. There hasn’t had a house fire within 2 square miles in my neighborhood for 15 years. House fires are exceeding rare. Under 1% of homes ever catch fire. Homeowners insurance doesn’t just cover fires, dear. Your premiums depend on many many factors. I would expect someone your age to already know that. You should read your policy or speak to your agent occasionally about it. Fire service has VERY LITTLE to do with your premiums unless you live in the woods. In that case your premiums SHOULD be sky high.

      In 90% of cases when someone has a heart attack at home they are brain dead before the paramedics even arrive. Most people don’t survive a heart attack. It takes at least 4 minutes for the paramedics to arrive. Without oxygen for 4 minutes the brain is already dead. In your case that might not matter. So if I ever sucuumb to a heart attack I would rather just have the mortuary pick me up. Screw the paramedics.

      I have already left instructions not to put me on life support. So I would save my family loads of money. I am not selfish like you pensioners who rob the younger generations.

      Reply this comment
  9. bob
    bob 20 September, 2014, 15:58

    As Stalin said it’s not who votes that’s important but who counts the votes…and who verifies the signatures.

    The Scots blew it. The elites will make sure they never get another chance like that again. And the elites will make sure Colliefornians (as Ahnode call ’em) will never get to vote on splitting the state.

    Reply this comment
    • LetitCollapse
      LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 17:15

      “The Scots blew it.”

      I think the younger generations voted “yes”, Bob. It was the disproportionate older generations that voted “no” because most of them are attached to the gubmint teat in one way or other and were afraid that they would lose their transfer payments if they separated from England. The old people are screwing the young people all over the world. Not just in America.

      The last California election in June had turnouts of about 15%. How could you possible get people to vote on seccession? Given a choice between voting and watching American Idol, 8 of 10 Americans would turn on the tube. Americans are the most apathetic ignoramouses on the planet. The average American would have his gold fillings extracted from his teeth and mail them to IRS if ordered to do so by Obama. Compared with the colonists – we are a bunch of spineless cowards.

      Reply this comment
  10. Ed W
    Ed W 20 September, 2014, 22:01

    The idea of splitting up California is too new to most Californians. That probably leads them to automatically say no. But as they get used to the idea and learn of the advantages, support for the idea will likely go up.

    Reply this comment
  11. SeeSaw
    SeeSaw 20 September, 2014, 23:00

    Oh, I’m all ears. Let’s hear about the advantages.

    Reply this comment
    • LetitCollapse
      LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 23:17

      It would depend upon where you lived. Some new states would prosper. Others would crash. I would not want to live in the state that included Los Angeles or San Francico.

      Reply this comment
  12. LetitCollapse
    LetitCollapse 20 September, 2014, 23:20

    Congrats to the Oregon Ducks. They won tonight but not easily against Washington State. 38-31. Oregon needs to firm up it’s defense. If they play like that against Stanford it’s going to be a long night. Tonight should have been a wake up call for the coaching staff. Unless Oregon’s defense improves there’s no chance of a national championship this season.

    Reply this comment

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