Pension follies: New Jersey adopts insane San Diego approach
California leads the way when it comes to government pension dysfunction. The first big city to be stricken by pension costs in the U.S. was San Diego, leading to the memorable 2004 New York Times’ description of it as “Enron by the Sea.”
Since then, three cities in the Golden State have either entered bankruptcy or on the verge of it because of massive pension costs — Vallejo, Stockton and San Bernardino. I’m not aware of any other state with more than one such afflicted city, and most states don’t have any.
But are other states learning from California’s mistakes? Evidently not. On Monday, there were reports that New Jersey was copying the screw-up that San Diego elected officials made beginning in 1996:
“Gov. Chris Christie’s move to reduce New Jersey’s pension payment to help close a mid-year budget gap has Moody’s Investors Service concerned that the state is approaching the limit of steps to trim spending.
“The second-term Republican is cutting $694 million of spending to balance the budget for the year through June. That includes $94 million from recalculating the required pension contribution as a result of revised actuarial assumptions, Baye Larsen, a Moody’s analyst in New York, said in a report last week.
“While the fix will help balance budgets through fiscal 2018, pension costs will be higher in later years as a result, according to Moody’s.”
This is crazy. It’s especially crazy from a guy who likes to criticize President Obama for fiscal recklessness. But it’s also super-mega crazy for a politician who takes shots for his doughy appearance to be making like Wimpy of Popeye fame when it comes to indiscipline and the need for instant gratification.
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Doomers…more red meat.
Just what Eeyore would say: ““No Give and Take. No Exchange of Thought. It gets you nowhere, particularly if the other person’s tail is only just in sight for the second half of the conversation.”
What is it about the truth that scares you so UU? 🙂
Very impressive TL, good numbers man!! 🙂
“California leads the way when it comes to government pension dysfunction.”
Except that PEW studies show 32 other states with a lower percent funded and ten states which are paying a lower percent of actuarial required funding.
If the first sentence in the article is flat wrong, is there any point in reading further?
Well perhaps that “dysfunction” relates the the EXTREMELY excessive generosity of CA’s pension formulas … the following of which is a good example:
—————————————————————
In California the typical recent Pubic Safety retiree’s pension starts at just about $100,000 and is COLA adjusted thereafter. By looking at a table of life annuity factors, such a single life immediate annuity has a value or cost upon retirement of just about $1.8 Million (18 times the annual pension). One way to judge if that is reasonable (or “appropriate and fair”) is to answer the question … What would be the necessary INCOME LEVEL (or Final Average Salary … FAS) of a Private Sector worker with the TYPICAL Private Sector DB pension (for the few Private Sector workers lucky enough to still be covered by such a pensions) to obtain a pension from his/her employer with the SAME $1.8 Million “value” upon retirement ?
Assume the CA safety worker has the typical 3% of final average pay per-year-of-service pension factor, had a final average salary of $111,111, 30 years of service and retired at age 55… resulting in the starting pension of $111,111 x .03 x 30 = $100,000. Next, let’s assume the Private Sector worker’s DB pension formula is 1.25% per year of service (a quite typical formula), is NOT COLA adjusted (routine in PRIVATE Sector Plans), and has a full unreduced retirement age of 62 (with a 4% reduction in pension payout for each year of age that you retire begin collecting your pension before age 62).
For a given Final Average Salary (FAS), this Private Sector worker’s annual pension (P) is given by the formula P = (FAS x 30 x .0125)x (1-((62-55)x.04)), with the latter part of that formula being the adjustment for early retirement at age 55. Shortening that formula, we have P = (FAS x 30 x .0125) x 0.72.
From above, we saw that the Safety worker’s pension (being COLA-increased) has a lump sum “value” of 18 times the annual STARTING pension. With no COLA increases, the lump sum “value” is only 13 times the annual pension. Therefore the Lump Sum “value” of the Private Sector worker’s pension is given by 13 x P, and since we are SETTING that value equal to the $1.8 Million value of the safety worker’s pension we have $1,800,000 = 13 x P, and solving for P, we have P= $1,800,000/13 = $138,462. This Private Sector non-COLA-increased annual pension of $138,462 can be looked at as being mathematically equivalent to an otherwise identical pension starting at $100,000 that includes 3% annual COLA increases (i.e., the Safety worker’s pension).
Now since we know the annual Private Sector worker’s annual pension “P”, we can plug it into my above formula of P = (FAS x 30 x .0125) x 0.72 to solve for FAS. Doing so we have, $138,462 = (FAS x 30 x .0125) x 0.72, from which
FAS = $138,462/(30 x 0.0125 x 0.72) = $512,822
What this shows is that a Private Sector worker (with a TYPICAL DB pension formula and provisions) would need to have a final average salary of $512,812 to generate a pension from his/her employer with the SAME $1.8 Million “value” as the TYPICAL Safety worker pension …. or $512,822/$111,111 = 4.62 times the Safety worker’s salary.
And for the skeptics that say …. this can’t be correct …. we can just reverse the order of calculations and SHOW that this $512,822 PRIVATE Sector salary is indeed necessary to generate a pension with a “value” equal to that (the $1.8 Million) of the Public Sector Safety worker … as follows:
(a) Private Sector worker’s Annual (non-COLA-increased) pension = $512,822 x 30 x 0.0125 x .72 = $138,462
(b) Lump sum value (using the 13 times life annuity factor applicable to non-COLA-increased pensions) = $138.462 x 13 = $1.8 Million
While most reasonable people would suggest that (give the nature of the occupations) Safety workers should receive pensions equivalent to Private Sector workers with salaries say 10% or 25% or 50% greater than they, I find it incredulous to believe that ANYONE would feel it appropriate to provide the TYPICAL CA Safety worker retiree with a pension equivalent to that of the Private Sector worker making over $500,000 annually. Taxpayers (who pay for all but the 10-20% of Total Coat Public Sector pensions typically paid for by the worker’s own contributions and the investment earnings thereon) simply cannot afford anything even remotely close to this level of generosity.
And to preemptively address the anticipated comeback from the Skipping Dogs, the Teds, and the S Moderation Douglases …. the 4.62 times greater CA safety pension is NOT a function of the Officer’s final pay. It would remain 4.62% even if the officer’s final pay (and hence starting pension) were 10%, 20% or even 50% lower.
The 4.62 time greater CA Safety worker pension results from the MUCH richer Formula and MUCH more generous “provisions” as follows:
(1) Benefit from the richer “formula” of 3% vs 1.25% = 3.00/1.25= 2.40 greater
(2) Benefit from only the CA safety worker getting COLA increases = 18/13 = 1.3846
(3) Benefit from no CA Safety worker pension reduction for full (unreduced) retirement at age 55 = 1.00/0.72 = 1.3889
The above beneficial ratios are multiplicative, giving the overall advantage of 2.40 x 1.3846 x 1.3889 = 4.62 times.
——————-
The ROOT CAUSE of CA’s pension woos are grossly excessive generosity and there are NO SOLUTIONS that don’t MATERIALLY reduces (by 50+%, and more for safety workers) future service pensions for all CURRENT workers.
P = (FAS x 30 x .0125)x (1-((62-55)x.04)) = TL math = GIGO
S Moderation Douglas,
What’s the matter, can’t handle the TRUTH ?
RAGWUS feeders have no use for math TL, they live in a “feels good” world fantasy. 🙂
Your “facts” are biased and incorrect. Your formula plugs in random numbers all skewed to demonstrate your point.
First, the average State saftey pension in CA is $53,748 as of 2011. Look it up at Calpers.
Second, your “payout” completely ignores the portion of public pensions that are funded by the worker. In fact employees contribute between 8-12% of total pay towards their pensions.
Third, you discuss only pension not total compensation. A better look would be the compensation between similarly educated public/private workers. Studies consistently find that, when adjusted for education, public workers make less.
Fourth, you completely ignore the fact that most California state employees do not receive Social Security, whereas private sector employees do. This is a huge discrepancy in your comparison.
Fifth, you discount the nature of the work. Our public safety workers deal with crime, drugs, murders, assaults, as well as policing “white collar” crimes by private sector companies. This is an extremely important role, and should not be minimized.
Sixth, you only take the highest strand of California workers. In fact the average pension in California is only $27,984 according to Calpers. Again demonstrating your bias.
We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts.
My facts are not biased:
(1) I’m not using the “average” safety pension (many with shorter service). I’m using that of the most recent retirees with 30 years of service for an apples-to-apples comparison with a similarly situated Private Sector worker. And, if you read my above comment time-stamped April 3, 2014 at 11:40 am, I demonstrated that their salary is not relevant. The 4.62 TIMES greater pension derives SOLELY form a MUCH richer pension “formula” and MUCH richer “provisions” (COLA and young full retirement ages). The same multiple results regardless of the wage level used.
(2) The workers own contribution (INCLUDING investment earnings) accumulated to retirement are RARELY sufficient to buy more than 10-15% of a safety worker’s pension. It’s a minor item which would STILL leave the Taxpayer-paid-for share of the Safety worker’s pension 4 TIMES greater than the comparable Private Sector worker’s pension. There is ZERO justification for this burden being foisted upon Taxpayers.
(3) No “education-level” adjustment is needed as this demonstration specifically compares a Public and Private Sector worker making the SAME pay, retiring at the SAME age, and having the SAME years of service. It’s the Public Sector pensions that come out as the grossly excessive element by any reasonable metrics
(4) CA Safety workers do not receive SS but also do not pay for it. At the higher income levels we are addressing, it has been shown time and again that SS is a LOUSY deal for Private Sector workers and they would be better far better off w/o it and being paid that extra income to invest on their own …. as are CA Safety workers.
(5) Public Sector Safety positions (Police, Fire, Corrections, etc.) indeed involve “risks” that the typical Private Sector worker does not encounter, and it is indeed a difficult task to come up with a premium (in pay and/or benefits) commensurate with that risk. While I do not have a definitive suggestion as to how much that premium should be, we should factor into that discussion the degree of incremental Police/Fire related risks relative to other high risk occupations, and look to the compensation afforded those in more risky occupations for guidance. While surprising to some, Public Sector safety occupations do not find themselves on the US Gov’t Bureau Of Labor Statistic’s list of the 10 deadliest jobs. From a 2013 Forbes article, the list of the 10 most dangerous occupations is as follows:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers
(6) By stating the low $27,984 “average” pension of “all” CA retirees it’s YOU who is biased and clearly trying to mislead. I’m sure you know how that “average” is brought down by:
(a) short career workers with smaller pensions averaged in
(b) part time workers with lower pay and hence low pensions averaged in
(c) Retirees of long ago who retired on much smaller wages and lower pension formulas, with much smaller pensions averaged in
(d) the 50% share survivorship pensions of beneficiaries of deceased retirees averaged in.
It is FAR most appropriate to compare the pensions of Public and Private Sector workers who RECENTLY retired after a 30 year career as I did … but that wouldn’t fit in with your agenda to minimize the enormity of the financial problem our Cities find themselves in … with the ROOT CAUSE being the grossly excessive pension and benefit promised Public Sector workers by our self-interested elected officials bought-off with Public Sector Union money.
The RAGWUS thieves in California are laying waste to the financial stability of our economic system. LA is looking at using 25% of its budget for pensions, some cities are at 75%, the private sector will not allow itself to be enslaved by a feeder class that lives a carefree lifestyle at the taxpayers expense.
The RAGWUS is making a wasteland of a once great place to live. 🙂
Please name one – just one – city that is using 75% of its budget for pensions. We’ll be waiting, Donk.
Desert Hot Springs, my RAGWUS feeding pal. 🙂
Desert Hot Springs is in bankruptcy again, so there’s no way of telling what budget priorities are being paid, the the city financial sheets don’t show predominately going to pensions. It certainly doesn’t offset the significant and normal expenses of having actual employees to do city work, which is where the bulk of any budget goes.
Desert Hot Springs cut the pay of its cops 22%, fired all its FF’s and is a classic RAGWUS run entity that has been driven right into the ground by its police department.
It has become comical reading the LE propaganda about how hard it is retaining good personal while losing 22% of your pay when the truth is they were all overpaid by 75% from their start. 🙂
LOL— DHS is about all Duncey can almost say! Zzzzzzzzzzz She’s a gloomy girl…We’re dooooooooooooooooooooomed!
I am going on a vacation!
Just google it my little RAGWUS feeder. 🙂
Are you flying Malaysian air TCS? I always fly Delta, I will be leaving this week also, back in May! 🙂
Hahahaha…Donk just destroyed the two biggest trough feeding dorks there are.
Good job Donk, you called the idiot out and named the city, idiot Skippy was spanked, again.
🙂
Back at you Rex!!! 🙂
Way to go Dunce!
That is 75% of total budget for all costs related to the police dept. Donkey. That leaves 25% of the budget to cover all other services. Of course it cannot be done–so they contracted out the fire dept. They didn’t get rid of the services–they cut costs as necessary. DHS is trying to stay out of bankruptcy. You still did not name a city that uses 75% of its budget for pensions–that is impossible!!!!!
That 75% is after a 22 % reduction in pay to the LE RAGWUS crooks, getting rid of its FF’s, and cutting every other service. You can not stop the landslide that is coming SeeSaw by hiding behind a lie. These RAGWUS pensions are going to swallow up every single city and county in California eventually, some will just take a little longer than others. 🙂
You beat me to it, Skipper! That’s impossible–a city could not even make payroll or pave the streets, if it had to use 75% of its budget for pensions. I will wait while Donkey names a city that uses its whole budget for pensions!
Already have SeeSaw. You RAGWUS feeders should start getting on board with solutions to this problem you have created, because the taxpayers don’t have the money to fix the problem. TL just posted the future, and you want to ignore the facts.
It is really a sickness of Pavlovian RAGWUS proportions. 🙂
Oh those RAGWUS feeders just shot an aggressive mountain lion in south OC!!
They shoot teenage girls in the middle of a park Ntheoc, but I am quite sure they did not shoot at the “mountain lion” 21 times, and continue to shoot it in the back while it was on the ground. 🙂
WOW,Three cities out of 250 plus in California are flirting with BK!! How about all the cities that are not? Like the city of HB where Donkey lives that Recentley approved the Firefighters contract with raises!!!!! Sorry donk, thought you would have been at that council meeting.
You really have no conception of reality Ntheoc. You live in the moment, the past is coming up on you faster than your little brain can handle.
There is a propaganda war on the public to make us all terrified and believe it’s our own fault the RAGWUS feeders are being harangued , you know the sociopaths, the big RAGWUS feeders that suck off the labor of others.
I know a lot of the RAGWUS feeders in HB Ntheoc, I went to school with them, most are making $200,000 to $280,000 a year, too much money for kids that used to ask me “What did she say?” in class year after year. 🙂
Donkey revealed his true jealousy for those who made better choices in life once more. It’s always an insightful reminder.
Having classmates that join a mafia-like organization, that uses taxpayer dollars to spread lies and fear to the public, practices a form of fraud on the private sector that only exists in the RAGWUS does not make one “jealous” Skdog, it makes one informed.
Every RAGWUS feeder in HB that is overpaid, over benefited, and over pensioned. Government feeders being paid four and five times the average household income is insane. But as a RAGWUS feeder, when the union propaganda constantly tells you that “you deserve” at some point Pavlovian science takes root. 🙂
Jealous, not much?
So much of what you write borders on libel, Donkey. You should be more careful in what you say about others.
So much of what you write is completely insane SeeSaw, and if you want your day in court have at it my RAGWUS feeding friend. 🙂
I’m not talking about me. Your former classmates whom you refer to as sociopaths joining mafia-like organizations such as municipal fire departments and law enforcement agencies might have serious objections to your characterizations of them. Such writing is meant to paint them in a bad light, and can be considered libel, and if you do the same thing in your neighborhood coffee shop, you could be guilty of slander.
That’s correct NTHEOC! And the same ratio remains true across the USA!
Sore knees TCS!! 🙂
LOL….Poor Teddy.
And in how many of the other 247 cities are the residents being insufficiently served due to the insatiable greed of the Public Sector Unions/workers and the self-interested. taxpayer-betraying elected officials who granted these grossly excessive pensions & benefits ?
There are over 400 cities in CA and hundreds of counties and special districts. There a lot of services required from public workers by a lot of people. CA is the greatest state in the Union, TL. Is that why you are so obsessed with it?
Rose colored glasses ?
The good news is that many public workers won’t be getting those big pensions. That $125 Obamacare stipend that Detroit pensioners will be getting for health care sounds like some serious reality just hit the fan. Public pension funds are on average 70% funded, so most public workers will be getting 70% of what they were promised.
http://www.freep.com/article/20140131/NEWS01/301310083/Detroit-retiree-health-care-settle
Great, That is a very 21st century American approach. Bankruptcy, who cares?
I got mine. Lovely.
Suspect anyone with that attitude in 18th century America would have been tarred and feathered, but what did they know. We got it all figured out. Work 30 years with the govt, contribute a bit to a pension. Collect $100k for the next 30 years. What is not to like about that? Fermier generale approach to pension planning. Perhaps, they were correct, but things went a bit sideways on them. Today is a new day.
Dang, I forgot what RAWGUS stands for…and what’s the plural of RAWGUS? RAWGI???
RAGWUSES is the plural Bob! 🙂
You can google RAGWUS Bob, soon it will be written on the subway walls or so says Geddy Lee. 🙂
Yawn!
Eeyore sleeps. 🙂
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz you drone on Poodle girl! Zzzzzzzzzzz Please no more RURGS!
RAGWUS will be written on the subway walls and the freeway overpasses TCS, my little dancing parrot.
🙂
A saying my mom taught me when I was young–“Fools’ names and fools’ faces are always found in public places”.
SeeSaw, Yes, and YOU have repeated shown it to be true.
Very mature, TL. You’re mother would be proud.
TL, I have never left my name or face in any public place, other than a place for such purpose, like a letter to the newspaper, etc.,–I paid attention to what my mother said. If I ever get the urge to do such a thing I will go to NJ and paint the tunnel of your subway a thousand times with the saying, “Tough Love is a jerk…………..”.
Seesaw ….. No “subways” in NJ.
And you have repeatedly painted yourself as a fool on these blogs.
Ad hominem attacks are a sign of immaturity.
S Moderation Douglas, Above, where in response to my long mathematical demonstration that CA Safety worker pensions are 4.62 times those typically granted Private Sector workers retiring with the SAME pay, at the SAME age, and with the SAME service … “immaturely” saying …”P = (FAS x 30 x .0125)x (1-((62-55)x.04)) = TL math = GIGO ”
So, do you want to try again (with a mature response), or is it (like I responded above) that you can’t handle the truth ……… or perhaps it’s that you’re not really one of the “Best and Brightest” we constantly hear about, and simply can’t follow the math?
If you can follow it, and believe it to be wrong (w/o the immature GIGO non-response), state why, and we can debate it.
You you guys profess to be the “Best and Brightest”
“my long mathematical demonstration”
Doesn’t deserve a response. Every time you use the word “assume”, you can substitute “GIGO”.
And we’ve been over this too many times before. You cannot compare pensions divorced from total compensation. If, as most studies show, total compensation, which includes the cost of pensions, is roughly equal, the relative pensions are irrelevant.
They are already factored into compensation. If twenty percent of a public sector workers compensation goes toward pensions, and seven percent of the private sector worker’s, guess who will have the larger pension?
You you should rest now. You’ve had a rough day.
S Moderation Douglas, Still at it … you disagree, but can’t point to even one single specific error in my calculations ….. surprise surprise.
Then you make completely illogical and false statements about TOTAL COMPENSATION because these CA Safety workers Cash Pay AND their pensions AND their Benefits are ALL greater than Private Sector workers with comparable job risks, skills, education, experience, and skill sets. Hence their Total Compensation is CLEARLY much greater … as I demonstrated.
And did you really say …. “If twenty percent of a public sector workers compensation goes toward pensions ….”
20%, really … on what planet ?
Crickets!! 🙂
LA is nearly in bankruptcy. They’ve had basically no job growth in the last 20 years. This, while its pension problems have exploded. Detroit has had better job growth recently. The pension funds need huge economic expansion to fund them. In Kali they are getting none. The DOW would have to be over 30,000 to begin to fund the idiot promises made to the pensions.
Kalifonia has more economic assets than anywhere on earth. So why is the unemployment rate still over 8% and a point and a half above the nat. average? Kali should and needs to be leading the country in economic growth. It’s the only way they can fund the pensions.
But LA hasn’t had any job growth in 20 years. Circling the drain.
Hondo…..
I Believe it is a combination of Commies, Warmers, and RAGWUS feeders that have found a home in government agencies. The infection of these types can be seen oozing from their places of power. Corona, top LE officer of the OC, the three demonrats indicted for corruption and gun running, Rizzo, Randy Adams (who has somehow managed to escape prosecution, but one must assume that his most crooked RAGWUS protects his scumbag self with dishonest boards like the POBOR and internal investigations), along with every RAGWUS feeder that has spiked their unearned superannuation. 🙂
I don’t suppose that all those corporations that closed their factories onshore and started doing all their business offshore had anything to do with the lack of job growth? My hat is off to the MARS Corp. which just reopened (or opened, I’m not sure which it is) a factory in Kansas.
“California leads the way when it comes to government pension dysfunction.”
A more sober assessment: middle of the pack. California generates a lot of noise because there is less sweeping under the rug there. Same with it’s economy.
The Golden State still has a chance to get out of this.
Middle of the pack??? CA leads the country in poverty- 1 in 3- and unfunded debt.
That is LEADING the pack my little friend.
Naturally, Rex. If you were homeless and had to sleep on the concrete every night, would you come to CA or stay in CO, or other places where it is so cold? We have the highest population–of course we are going to have the highest percentage of anything. Our own local high school has students who live in cars with their parents. There is a fundraiser at the school to help those students every year. If you don’t like CA, you can just leave it–we don’t have time for those who set around and pathetically whine about how bad California is!
The cities of Vallejo, Stockton, and San Bernardino went bankrupt because of mismanagement and the world-wide global crisis in 2008–the housing bubble caused by the Wall Street crooks with their eyes wide open! Why don’t you write about the true causes, for once, instead of trying to take away the economic stability of those who work for government entities and use their pensions to help keep the economy stable and do other good works!
SeeSaw, please step back and use some reason and logic! These cites went BK because they were paying more for labor, present and past, than they were collecting from taxes.
DHS was paying so much for its RAGWUS feeders they are looking at going back to the county.
SeeSaw Wrote: “You still did not name a city that uses 75% of its budget for pensions–that is impossible!!!!!” Desert Hot Springs, and you are right that’s impossible, and why they are looking at BK and going back to the county. 🙂
Desert Hot Springs does not use 75% of it’s budget for pensions.
It spends 70% of it’s budget for the police department.
Sure it does SMD, after cutting their cop salaries by 22%, firing the FF’s, and going bare bones with the rest of the phony services provided by the RAGWUS crooks. 🙂
Reading comprehension.
Work on it.
Truthfulness, work on it!! 🙂
San Jose is going to rescind much of their recent pension “reform” law. It appears they are having difficulty hiring and retaining quality employees at all levels, esp. safety.
Any thinking person would have foreseen this.
Their is no real shortage of well qualified candidates for all open positions, only an over-sized sense of entitlement and gravitation to those cities foolishly still betraying their taxpayers overcompensating their employees in pay and/or pensions & benefits.
The doors to excessive pensions will shut one-by-one and even that problem will go away…… and new employees who think that they too will be getting those overstuffed pensions are fools being set up for a BIG disappointment.
Read the article TL. There are not enough qualified candidates.
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2014/04/02/don-rocha-calls-for-reforming-measure-b-pension-reform/
Quoting …”There are not enough qualified candidates.”
Sure …. as defined by Union/politician vested interests DETERMINED to say ALWAYS come to that conclusion.
If ALL the applicants had the intelligence of an Einstein, the strength of a Schwarzenegger, and the determination of a Musk …. those vested interests would STILL say there were not enough “qualified” candidates.
It’s all BS and one cogs in the game-plan to keep Public Sector wages, pensions, and benefits greater than necessary or justifiable.
Charles, you are misrepresenting the article.
http://calwatchdog.com/2014/04/08/no-san-jose-not-struggling-to-retain-city-workers-just-police/
Sorry Charlie, but that “hiring and retaining quality employees” BS is used at every collective bargaining heist, not true, never was true. Another propaganda lie put out by the RAGWUS feeders.
What San Jose is going to have a problem with is keeping hard working private sector taxpayers to prop up the RAGWUS thieves. :
)
Read the article
I don’t need to Charlie, the same dog and pony show goes on at every city council meeting across the state. The RAGWUS feeders bring the members down with folded arms and frowns on their faces as they demand to be paid, benefited, and pensioned four to five times higher than the people they are serving!! 🙂
I don’t need to read, Charlie!
The feeders are paid five times higher than the people they serve.
The dog and donkey show has spoken!
RURG
Read the article Donkey. There are not enough qualified candidates.
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2014/04/02/don-rocha-calls-for-reforming-measure-b-pension-reform/
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2014/04/02/don-rocha-calls-for-reforming-measure-b-pension-reform/
Tough love, wonder dog, and the donkey.
It’s a safe bet none of them has ever actually been involved in labor negotiations. Or been responsible for actually providing necessary services.
They think all politicians are owned by the unions, even though business interests outspend unions in campaign contributions by about fifteen to one.
Well, I not sure what you consider to be “necessary services” (perhaps writing traffic tickets in a bedroom community for pay of over $100 per hour w/benefits is your idea), but my Private sector employer, who who pays me quite handsomely to develop products & services willingly purchased by consumers (who have choices to shop elsewhere, unlike those provided by the monopolistic Public Sector) and whose taxes help pay for Public Sector salaries, pensions, and benefits, would think otherwise.
And one politician NOT owned by the Unions, comes to mid quickly … Mayor Reed. Bravo for him … not for sale !
TL, please document one bedroom community in CA that pays its patrolmen $100 per hour w/benefits to write traffic tickets.
Seesaw, If you did the calculations, summing cash pay + current benefits (e.g., family healthcare) + the TRUE cost of annual accruals towards their 3%@50 pensions & retiree healthcare …. ALL of them !
Read the article SeeSaw. Facts speak for themselves. If wages and benefits are cut,services will suffer. Please read my comment also in the referenced article. Thank you for your efforts.
Charles
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2014/04/02/don-rocha-calls-for-reforming-measure-b-pension-reform/
Charles, With the exception of police, ALL of their “employes” should be outsourced ….. ENDEDING any future growth in pensions and benefits, which is the ROOT CAUSE of the City’s distress.
Once that’s done, fire the police and buy the services from the county.
What are you smoking SMD, almost every politician is a Rizzo to some degree, and every bureaucratic RAGWUS feeder is a Randy Adams Stealing from the taxpayer. Look at the three demonrats just arrested at the state level, those crimes are going on at every level, especially in and around the PIC groupies. 🙂
Read the article Douglas. It should dispel the notions that high level government employees can be easily recruited, trained and recruited. Spread it around to others. I doubt if TL and donkey will. I tend to ignore Rex. He never has anything new to say.
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2014/04/02/don-rocha-calls-for-reforming-measure-b-pension-reform/
See my earlier comments to you …….
I read the article. The situation is similar in other cities. When Brown signed PEPRA, Stockton, as well as many other cities, I’m sure, hurried to fill as many police vacancies as they could, to get them under the OLD rules.
They said they just couldn’t compete without decent pension incentives.
The city manager of Hot Springs said “I would not venture to say they are overpaid,What I would say is that we can’t pay them.”
But, the dog and donkey show, with special guest Tough Luck, know better than ALL the experienced city managers.
The City managers are in similar pension Plans.
ALL Public Sector Union/workers work TOGETHER (colluding with the elected officials that they have BOUGHT-OFF with campaign contributions and election support) to keep (and enhance) the gravy train running smoothly
That news about Gov. Cuomo reserving a part of the education budget for charter schools is great. Sorry teachers, charter schools are not going away. And neither are more budget cuts to public schools as CalSTRS debt keeps growing.
I wish Kentucky was as well funded as any of the California Plans. Our state worker plan as of June 2013 was 23% funded and I believe now is in the teens as I outline in my book “Kentucky Fried Pensions”