Los Angeles teeters on the brink of bankruptcy

April 30, 2012

By Brian Calle

Taxpayers in Los Angeles are facing a major crisis if Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and other officials do not begin to address the systemic, structural issues putting the city on the fast track to economic upheaval. The situation is similar to that in other California cities such as Stockton and Vallejo.

Much ado has been made about the city’s projected $238 million budget shortfall for fiscal year 2012-2013 and the mayor’s proposal to cut jobs and tinker around the edges of pension reform. But the picture is much grimmer than a single year’s budget shortfall.

The tsunami of unfunded pension liabilities and health benefits is about to hit the shoreline for Los Angeles. And if Stanford University’s estimates are correct, Los Angeles is facing roughly $27 billion in unfunded pension liabilities. For a city whose annual budget is in the $7 billion range this year, that figure is daunting.

The Big Budget Picture

Budget gaps are no rarity for the City of Angels in recent years. It seems like an annual tradition. In fiscal year 2011-2012, the city projected a budget shortfall of over $400 million. For 2010-11’s fiscal year, the tune was the same. As was 2009-10, and so on.

L.A.’s chief administrative officer, Miguel Santana, noted that the budget shortfall is likely to be much greater by 2014-15. “Every year it gets worse,” he said.

The chain of events is always the same. City officials announce a budget shortfall and the mayor seeks to bandage it with gimmicks that fail to address the underlying causes.

Criticizing Villaraigosa’s approach to last year’s budget shortfall, City Controller Wendy Greuel said that “kicking the can down the road is not a solution when we can anticipate a growing structural deficit in future years.” She was referring specifically to a plan Villaraigosa outlined to borrow money to solve part of the deficit. But her summation applies to the inept budgeting approach of the city for years.

Former Los Angeles Mayor Richard Riordan predicted increased hardships and eventual bankruptcy if drastic action wasn’t taken by city officials.  In an editorial he penned in the Wall Street Journal in 2010, he wrote, “Los Angeles is facing a terminal fiscal crisis: Between now and 2014 the city will likely declare bankruptcy.”

Riordan is not shying away from those comments. In a recent phone conversation, he told me that bankruptcy for L.A. could come “as early as next year.”

Ballooning Pension Costs

What has rapidly perpetuated financial woes for the city is that payouts for retirement benefits have increased in recent years, thus crowding out services the city provides. A study released in early April by the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research found that, for the city of Los Angeles, “Pension costs increased from 8.5 percent of total city expenditures in 1999 to 13.7 percent in 2011.” For fiscal year 2011-12, estimated pension costs look to have climbed to “15.4 percent of city expenditures.”

Stanford’s study also estimated that each of the city’s three independent pension funds is unfunded by billions of dollars: the city of Los Angeles Fire and Police Pension System is $9.25 billion unfunded; the Los Angeles City Employees’ Retirement System is $11.32 billion unfunded; and the city of Los Angeles Water and Power Employees’ Retirement System is $6.59 billion unfunded.

“In 1999, Los Angeles City’s aggregate annual required contributions for its three systems totaled $291 million, rising to $923 million in 2011, an annual average growth rate of 11.1 percent,” according to the Stanford report. 

But here is the kicker: The growth in pension spending by the city “outpaced that of spending on public protection, which grew at 5.2 percent, on health and sanitation (3.6 percent), and on recreation and cultural services (5.8 percent), and it occurred while spending on public assistance programs fell by an average of 3.0 percent per year.” 

If the trend continues, the city will be little more than a professional retirement payment and processing service.

Union Power

Economic downturn aside, interminable spending fueled by powerful unions has pushed Los Angeles to the brink of bankruptcy. As Riordan argues, unions basically control the Los Angeles City Council.

For example, “A compensation package negotiated in 2007 irresponsibly guaranteed many city workers more than 25 percent in pay hikes over five years,” according to a Los Angeles Times editorial.

And as the city continues its downward spiral, “most employees represented by the Coalition of Los Angeles City Unions are scheduled for 11 percent increases in compensation over the coming two years,” the Times reported.

One of the ideas for offsetting some of this year’s budget shortfall was to ask city workers to forgo raises. But the union bosses balked at the idea claiming that city employees had sacrificed enough in recent years.

As for pension benefits, some city employees are able to retire with up to 100 percent of their salaries, a benefit virtually unheard of in the private sector.

Triggering Bankruptcy

“What will likely trigger bankruptcy is when Wall Street stops buying bonds from [the city of] LA,” Riordan told me. “Someone will wake up and say, ‘They aren’t going to have enough money to pay off my bonds,’ and that will be that.”

“If you predict ahead three or four years,” Riordan argued, the city will have to “close parks, libraries and cut police and fire services,” similar to what has happened in the cities of Stockton and Vallejo.

Tap Dancing Around Reform  

To close this year’s budget shortfall, Villaraigosa plans to get rid of 669 positions in the city; 231 of the positions would be layoffs, the others are currently vacant and would be eliminated.

Of course, layoffs will not be enough, and Villaraigosa has argued that city workers will have to assume more costs for their own health care. And he has announced plans for changes to the city’s pension system, including raising the retirement age for new hires to 67 (current workers retire at 55 or 60) and limiting pension benefits so that retirees cannot retire with 100 percent of salary.

Union leaders instantly chastised the mayor for his pension proposals, specifically his plan to raise the retirement age. But frankly, his proposals barely scratch the surface of what’s necessary for fiscal sustainability. 

At the very least, a new, less-generous pension plan has to be created for new employees, something like the 401(k) plans private sector employees have. Jan Perry, a Los Angeles city councilwoman and candidate for mayor, told me, “A new pension tier for people not even hired is completely reasonable to pursue.”

Pension expert Marcia Fritz said that all of the city’s employees should pay at least half of pension costs. “This eliminates the employer paid pension contribution and will reduce pension costs as a whole,” she said. 

“Another thing L.A. should do,” if bankruptcy becomes reality, “is break retiree health contracts,” she said. “They weren’t prefunded, so are empty promises, and courts have allowed retiree health to be lumped in with other unsecured creditors.” 

The best option would be to adjust promised benefit levels for current workers. Some experts believe, as Fritz also noted, that “fiscally distressed agencies may have the ability to adjust benefits for current workers.” She argued that there is a growing precedent that governments can call on employees to increase retirement contributions and suspend cost-of-living increases when municipal or agency funds are at unhealthy levels. Still, these necessarily bold approaches are untested. 

Of course, another option to fix the hole would be astronomical tax increases, which would likely only delay real solutions. Riodan balked at the idea, asking, “Can you imagine L.A. quadrupling their taxes? Everyone would flee the city and the state.”

Even with the city’s challenges, as hard is it may be to believe, Riordan contended: “L.A. is better off than a lot of cities” in California and elsewhere. If that’s the case, there is a bumpier road ahead.

40 comments

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  1. queeg
    queeg 30 April, 2012, 12:59

    Who really cares about LA?

    Villa rah tax ya. He has shown little hope for the city….. as usual an irksome budget blip…..raise fees….solved….over….

    When is the next party, game, junket???

    Reply this comment
  2. Mike
    Mike 30 April, 2012, 16:39

    I suggest a law that requires all public employees who wish to receive their full annual pensions to die 5 years after retiring. That should solve it!

    Reply this comment
  3. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 30 April, 2012, 19:17

    What the hell do you expect? You got half the city collecting $100k government pensions who moved out of state and the other half working under the table off the books! HAH! 😀 Viagarosa put the final nail in the coffin. When is Calderon termed out in Mexico City? If he moved to LA and ran for mayor he’d be a shoe-in. The pols have destroyed that city. Go watch some old Dragnet episodes when they show the City. People were dressed up in business attire, the streets were neat and tidy, traffic moved smoothly, men gave their seats to women on the busses, etc… Look at it now. Pimps and whores on the streetcorners, people getting their pockets picked on camera, vendors selling menudo and blankets from makeshift street carts, potholes big enough to fall into and die, women pushing a baby carriage down the sidewalk with 6 kids aged 1-6 with 6 pounds of government cards in her purse, painted donkeys break dancing, etc…..I wouldn’t step foot in that war zone anymore unless I had to drive through it to get to the airport. Let it collapse and rise from it’s ashes. Hail Atlantis!!!

    Reply this comment
  4. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 30 April, 2012, 19:36

    Well, I see that OctoMom filed for Chapter 7 today. The report said she could have as much as $1M in debt, 20x’s her assets. heh. I would love to talk to her creditors who got stiffed!!! heh. Maybe the City of LA could recruit her. That’s the sort of resident they cherish. Since half of LA is on welfare there must be a gazillion taxpayer funded programs that Octo could enroll her 14 kids in. Maybe they could build a whole new project complex just for her family compliments of JoeSixPack. heh. I wonder if the Brazilian Blowout will give Octo and her kids free haircuts for a lifetime?? They would have to hire a couple new stylists just to service the Octo family! heh. Relocate to LA for the bennies, Octo!!! 🙂

    Reply this comment
  5. queeg
    queeg 1 May, 2012, 07:00

    LA is beyond help. The real estate tax base is shattered…..most residents pay no income taxes….everything is gritty deferred.

    The news channels relish in reporting rapes, murders and corruption probes…

    It’s over!!!!

    Reply this comment
  6. Tough Love
    Tough Love 1 May, 2012, 07:57

    The LA Taxpayers must insist that step #1 (of others to follow) is a 50% reduction in the rate of pension accruals for future service. If the Unions do not agree, all efforts should be made to force bankruptcy, through out the labor contracts, end retiree healthcare, and hard freeze the DB pensions (to be replaced with a DC Plan with a very modest taxpayer match of about 3% of pay….. just like most Private sector workers get).

    For decades the Public Sector Unions (along with cooperating politicians they bought with campaign contributions) have financially raped the taxpayers.

    It’s payback time !

    Reply this comment
  7. queeg
    queeg 1 May, 2012, 09:14

    There is nothing left except buzzard meat…the pension system will collapse on it’s own…
    No socialist politican will ever ever cut government out of your lives!

    Reply this comment
  8. FixPensionsFirst
    FixPensionsFirst 1 May, 2012, 09:43

    The Legislature can help LA and every other city in CA by putting a constitutional amendment on the November ballot to require employees to pay half their pension costs. Savings begin with the next paycheck. The courts won’t allow changes to current benefits, but employees should at least pay half. In some cities (Sacramento), employees pay nothing for benefits that can be worth a million $$ or more. Fact sheets on the financial status of the 18 largest city/county pension systems can be found at http://www.fixpensionsfirst.com.

    Reply this comment
  9. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 1 May, 2012, 10:29

    Recruit Octo and give her the keys to the City. Let her run it. Make her queen and her clan of 14 princes and princesses. I contend that it wouldn’t be much different that it is today. Criminals from Mexico can relocate to LA for a ‘new start’ in life. They can start new criminal enterprises with a clean slate – free from interference by both Mexico and the United States. Mexico is delighted to get rid of them and America welcomes them with open arms. It’s a marriage made in heaven. Look at what they’ve turned LA into for God sakes. Drive up there sometime and view the Garment District. I recommend that you stay in your cars. It looks like Tijuana on steroids. Then they can’t understand where all the money’s going. For the love of God. Snap out of your coma’s!

    Reply this comment
  10. queeg
    queeg 1 May, 2012, 11:02

    LA is fly paper for what’s wrong with liberal social welfare policy….

    Get out…..it will consume you and your assets!

    Reply this comment
  11. Hondo
    Hondo 1 May, 2012, 13:12

    Go to youtube and watch the tsunamis roll into Indonesia a few years ago. The contrast is amazing. You have people living in paradise, sitting by the pool with drinks in their hands, kids playing in the tidal pools, people walking the beach hand in hand.
    Then the tide starts going out, waaaayy out. People rush to the shore to look, not noticing the huge wave forming out to sea. A few people yell to them to get out, while pointing out to sea. The people look out to sea and say” isn’t that a pretty wave.” Its so far out it looks small.
    But that is an optical illusion. The wave is much bigger and closer than they think. By the time they realize it’s too late, they barely turn to run only to be overtaken by they wave while they are still on the beach. The video is horrifying. The wave isn’t some much big as unstoppable.
    That is what Kalifornia is facing. The website ‘Pension Tsunami’ is correctly named. These cities and counties and states are facing a wall of debt that can’t be stopped. The the wave will destroy all in its path. The wave is completely man made and could have been stopped years ago. We here at this sight are pointing out to sea and no one is paying attention.
    The problem is is that even we people who see it coming have no mountain to climb to get away from the wall of debt. Kalifornia’s demise will take us all down, the state is too big, too big to fail. But fail it must if we are to learn a lesson.
    Hondo

    Reply this comment
  12. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 1 May, 2012, 13:38

    Hondo, that is a good analogy to describe the entire debt crisis in Ca and the US. While the pension debt is large – it is only a slice of the overall problem. Throw all the other crap in – defense spending, welfare and social services, corporation bailouts, medicare, social security, etc… and there’s your tsunami. We must attack the whole monster – not a slice of it – to win the war on stupidity and denial. The collective debtload is what brought down other superior empires throughout the realm of history. These peabrains apparently flunked their history classes back in school. All of them should be forced to take remedial history courses.

    Reply this comment
  13. NTHEOC
    NTHEOC 1 May, 2012, 15:23

    Bla,blah,blah!!!!! Nothing more than a bunch of “Chicken little” pension tsunami rhetoric! The money will come and there will be no BK for Los Angeles. Just look at how the city leaders were caught lying about fire dept response times when they cut the fire dept,hahaha. The people were up in arms and now they are going to return the dept to full staffing,lol. Sure they are going to file BK,Sure they are!!!! And as for the pension system,The DROP program is looking better and better!!!!! Hahahhaa!!!

    Reply this comment
  14. NTHEOC
    NTHEOC 1 May, 2012, 15:28

    Actually, I would love to see them file for BK!!Cmon LA, do it,lol. Hey,let’s see how Magic does with the dodgers and that 2billion that was spent buying them. Magic should run for Mayor…Yes,there’s our answer..

    Reply this comment
  15. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 1 May, 2012, 15:48

    “Magic should run for Mayor…Yes,there’s our answer..”

    OMG. heh. Yeah, that would work out about as well as Kevin Johnson being the Mayor or Sactown. Do you think Magic is a brain surgeon or something?? heh. Grow up.

    Reply this comment
  16. Rex The Wonder Dog!
    Rex The Wonder Dog! 1 May, 2012, 23:28

    Go watch some old Dragnet episodes when they show the City. People were dressed up in business attire, the streets were neat and tidy, traffic moved smoothly, men gave their seats to women on the busses, etc

    Dragnet is on Antenna TV from 3-4 PM M-F, and I watch it. They had an episode from 1967 (??) where the LAPD was recruiting minorities and there were TWO very funny things in this episode.

    #1- they said the pay, I think it was $750 a month, and one guy stands up and says “There are factories that pay more than that”. Now think about that. Today LAPD/FD both have base salaries that are over $100K before overtime and the benefits are worth at least $100K. There are basically NO factories left in LA and the ones that are still there pay minimum wage of $8 an hour up to about $15 an hour and no benefits. That’s how far this state has come in 40 years. And that os before the vast amoints of overtime these gov jobs hand out, where a FF can earn an extra $100K-$150K per year in overtime on top of his regular pay. Cops and FF’s are making more than the judges and Mayor do.

    #2- OJ Simpson made his TV debut in this episode!!!!!! First appearance ever on the tube.

    Reply this comment
  17. Rex The Wonder Dog!
    Rex The Wonder Dog! 1 May, 2012, 23:32

    Hey,let’s see how Magic does with the dodgers and that 2billion that was spent buying them. Magic should run for Mayor…Yes,there’s our answer..

    #1- they over paid by at least $600 million to $1.3 billion.

    #2- how are they going to stay in the black??????? They are not going to be able to jack the prices to a level that covers the debt service on $2 billion. It does not pencil out, the numbers don’t. So Magic, the front man only with little equity in the team, is really in a bad spot.

    #3- they let McCord KEEP half the parking lots!!!!!!!! $2.1 billion and they get only half the parking lots.

    Fools. They will never make a profit, will never be able to buy good players, will never be able to compete with a good team.

    Reply this comment
  18. Rex The Wonder Dog!
    Rex The Wonder Dog! 1 May, 2012, 23:34

    Just look at how the city leaders were caught lying about fire dept response times when they cut the fire dept,hahaha

    Actually the FD was the party that was lying about response times, not the elected officials.

    Reply this comment
  19. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 1 May, 2012, 23:54

    “There are basically NO factories left in LA and the ones that are still there pay minimum wage of $8 an hour up to about $15 an hour and no benefits”

    And the illegals have most of the assembly line and factory jobs that remain in LA. And it’s not because citizens don’t want those jobs. The illegals accept sub-minimum wage jobs and never complain about working conditions for fear of being thrown out of the country. I think Walmart still hires citizens. But that will likely change too.

    “So Magic, the front man only with little equity in the team, is really in a bad spot”

    He was probably brought in to put his celebrity face on and to draw more black people into the stands. He’s probably being told what to do and say. And you are correct. The numbers don’t jive and they’ll end up in the red. How many fans attend those games? 10k-15k, if that? Personally, I’d be scared to sit in the lower level seats with my back to the crowd. But that’s just me.

    Reply this comment
  20. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 1 May, 2012, 23:59

    “Actually the FD was the party that was lying about response times, not the elected officials”

    Of course they are, rex. They do work slowdowns on purpose and then claim that slower response times are due to lack of manpower. It’s easy to hold up the truck for a few minutes before they leave the station. There’s no video. The games they play to get what they want are what put the public at greater risk. The whole FD system is a scam. They control the game and use extortion tactics to get what they want. The cops do the same thing with work slowdowns to intentionally increase response times. I guess they think we’re all idiots who just fell off the turnip wagon. They don’t fool me in the slightest.

    Reply this comment
  21. John Steele
    John Steele 2 May, 2012, 06:43

    There’s no way LA can pay it’s obligations. The city needs to declare bankruptcy like Vallejo did and renegotiate it’s bloated Union contracts and LA will have to cut services and lay half of the bureaucracy. Antonio is a freakin disaster as a mayor. His resume is ” Community Organizer, just like good Old Obama… You can see how well Obama’s resume is working for the country

    Reply this comment
  22. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 2 May, 2012, 08:37

    “Antonio is a freakin disaster as a mayor. His resume is ” Community Organizer, just like good Old Obama… You can see how well Obama’s resume is working for the country”

    Mr. Steele, obviously you’re not a blood relative of Teddy’s. You actually make sense. 🙂

    Mark my words. If Obama gets reelected Antonio will be working for him, possibly in a new cabinet position called ‘Immigration Czar’. Whatever few protections still exist in America against an onslaught of foreign indigents invading your neighborhoods will be lifted or made illegal. They will get the same protections as convicted criminals in the workplace or gays in the award of government contracts. You think I’m joking??? I’m dead serious.

    Reply this comment
  23. queeg
    queeg 2 May, 2012, 09:01

    I guess this a new day and someone else to bash..

    Gays……

    It is amazing…..who likes anyone in California?

    Reply this comment
  24. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 2 May, 2012, 10:04

    Getting a little too close to home? That’s okay. It’s 2012. Anything goes. The only one without special rights is the taxpayer who is forced to pay for it all. The taxpayer is the only one without lobbyists with deep pockets. All the other special interest groups specialize in bribery to steal the billions that the taxpayers throw into the public pot. The politicians claim that they are our (the taxpayer’s) lobbyists. heh. What a knee slapper that one is! 😀 And when Frankenstein shows up at my front door he’s come to help me with my household chores too. Come on in, Frank old boy. Can I offer you a Transylvania smoothie on the rocks??? 🙂

    Reply this comment
  25. Pragmatic
    Pragmatic 2 May, 2012, 10:09

    I love the weather in LA ! Outside of that, it’s a disaster. Let it all collapse and restart itself. Please , please, please Mr.Fed , don’t print more money to give to these union thugs who set up one generation pension plans !
    Everyone has forgotten our man Obama could give them a bailout and screw all the rest of us who have a bank account. Wealth re-distribution folks! Is that not what this is all about ??

    Reply this comment
  26. queeg
    queeg 2 May, 2012, 10:34

    Teddy…it has to end

    Get the wagon gassed up!

    Reply this comment
  27. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 2 May, 2012, 11:11

    Bring it! 🙂

    Reply this comment
  28. Gary Hill
    Gary Hill 2 May, 2012, 11:31

    This article is hogwash.

    The LACERS Unfunded Accrued Actuarial Liability (UAAL)peaked in 2010, not because of spiking in the liability from increases in labor costs, but because the market value of its’ investments dipped. At that time, the Segal group, the actuary retained by the City to meet the GASB requirement to make a commensurate City contribution to the fund in order to be on tract to fully fund LACERS, identified the UAAL as $2.1 billion when the fund’s reported value was $9.0 billion. The reported value of the LACERS fund in 2011 is $10.8 billion, and the UAAL has therefore shrunk, to such an extent that one could reasonably think that in 2012 there may in fact be no UAAL at all.

    Any article that cites Marcia Fritz of CalPensions, a right-wing anti-government pension lobby group, as a pension ‘expert’, is clearly of the same cloth.

    Yet the problem with this loaded, sensationalist type of blogging that Calle engages in here is that if the lie is repeated long enough, it could bring about repercussions. Richard Riordan prognosticating that Wall Street bondholder’s could ostracize the City’s debt, and thereby increase the costs for it, just contributes to bringing on a self-fulfilling prophecy. After all, as a venture capitalist, Riordan is exactly the sort of actor that would resort to this tactic when profiteering.

    Hopefully, the news media will promulgate these faulty opinions to the extent they should be broadcast–which is, not at all.

    GARY HILL

    Reply this comment
  29. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 2 May, 2012, 13:19

    Yeah Gary, Miguel Santana, LA’s Administrative Manager, is pulling our legs by raising the red flags. He just does it for craps and grins to get his name in the paper.

    All’s quiet on the western front. No reason to worry. Keep that head buried deep in the sand. We’ll call you when it’s time to pull out. 🙂

    Reply this comment
  30. queeg
    queeg 2 May, 2012, 14:09

    Half of nothing equals 8% annual return to the square root of liberalism and the extrapolated cosign….by the tax payers…..

    Reply this comment
  31. Rex The Wonder Dog!
    Rex The Wonder Dog! 3 May, 2012, 09:33

    Any article that cites Marcia Fritz of CalPensions, a right-wing anti-government pension lobby group, as a pension ‘expert’, is clearly of the same cloth.

    Ever notice how these public employee trough feeding low lifes make personal ad hominem attacks on the ones who are trying to right the broken ship???????

    Go home Gary, your spin will never work here, we are far more informed then the average taxpayer.

    Reply this comment
  32. SeeSaw
    SeeSaw 3 May, 2012, 11:08

    Marcia Fritz writes op-ed columns–a wannabe pension expert. RWD’s specialty is making personal, ad hominem attacks on public employees and retirees.

    Reply this comment
  33. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 3 May, 2012, 11:33

    “RWD’s specialty is making personal, ad hominem attacks on public employees and retirees”

    The public employees and public retirees created the scenarios for the attacks all on their own. Citizen watchdogs merely stand on the sidelines and point them out. Just as if you were at a farm and saw a two-headed goat. You would point at it. It comes naturally.

    Reply this comment
  34. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 3 May, 2012, 12:03

    Seesaw. We had a litte debate here on CWD. Is Ted Steele your husband by chance? Please either deny or confirm. Thanks.

    Reply this comment
  35. SeeSaw
    SeeSaw 3 May, 2012, 12:24

    Oh, funny. I have never met Ted Steele–don’t think we even reside in the same area. He is completely incognito–I don’t know who he is, what he did for a living, or how old he is. I suspect he was PS, probably undercover. He has stated before that “Ted Steele” is not his real name–and, I don’t believe for a minute that he is 75 years old.

    Reply this comment
  36. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 3 May, 2012, 13:02

    Thank you for putting that rumor to bed, Seesaw.

    It’s just that you and him seem to have similar ideological leanings and were said to be around the same age. I think that is how the rumor got started. Had the winds of fate blown in a different direction and you met one another in the days of old who knows what might have happened?

    Reply this comment
  37. PJ
    PJ 6 May, 2012, 14:52

    Down the 405 in Westminster, the City Council declared the WHOLE CITY a redevelopment area years ago and have been spending that money like water ever since — on things like a new Chamber of Commerce Building. (Per OC Register.) So they are looking at BK now that the spigot got turned off.

    Reply this comment
  38. Beelzebub
    Beelzebub 6 May, 2012, 22:52

    What a house of ill repute they’re running there in Westminster?

    Is that Councilman who was loaded and took out a cinder block wall with his car a couple years ago still on that council? Let me guess: Affirmative.

    Did they ever try that Westminister detective who kidnapped that poor innocent waitress/mother after she got off work and committed unspeakable sex acts on her in the back of the car? Once found guilty they oughta put that rabid dog down.

    I sort of look upon Westminister as the Bell of OC. To be fair it might be a tossup between Westminster and Santa Ana tho.

    Reply this comment
  39. Juror #420
    Juror #420 10 August, 2012, 13:11

    1. Arrest the city council members. Starting with the Treasurer.

    2. Audit CAFR and make the current pensions good to go, the best they can. People were promised retirement, taking that away is theft. There maybe some office worker who did 50+ years, and you would deny them their retirement?

    That’s the kind of stuff civil wars start over. Think carefully. Some people MUST be grandfathered in. As much as I hate saying that, the reality is if you approve it, you approve of de-population. The socialism part of it is a mistake which can’t be permitted to continue forward. e.g. no NEW pensions. Just the old ones that exist. Which equally sucks for new employees. MAYBE the CAFR audit can fix it all? But nobody’s looking at it!!!!!!!

    CAFR CAFR CAFR CAFR
    Comprehensive Annual Financial Report READ: cafr1.com to learn more.

    4. (this is the one that gets me the most) When someone raises their hand and takes an oath, and then breaks that oath, they need to be arrested. Plain and simple. None of this “I’m an official and privileged” or “continuity of government” or “state secrets” can NOT be allowed as an excuse. When they USE these excuses, they use them to hide their own crime. Theft, Corruption, Logan Act, Murder and War. Our officials need to be the ones having that butterfly in their stomach, and be very scared for their freedom, based on their past actions. Fact if this was expanded Federally to include ALL US GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES to compare their actions through time with the US Constitution. Those who broke it are to be punished, and the damage UNDONE, laws ROLLED BACK. Treaties NULLIFIED. This cleansing will separate the UN’s Agenda 21 from coming down the pipe through ICLEI to the local level where it screws the small guy.

    FINAL THOUGHT:
    If there’s no rule of law, then everything will become lawless as nobody will obey any law. So these scumbags at the top need to be arrested right now before that happens, there’s no more time to play mainstream media games or get caught in the left right paradigm of Obamma vs Romney (The electoral vote decides that anyway not the popular vote)

    Reply this comment

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